Monday, September 21, 2009

On Czars and Unicorns

Over the last few weeks, I've been fascinated (in a sick sort of way) by the GOP's escalating war on "czars."  What began as an especially dumb (even by his standards) Glenn Beck crusade has now reached the point where GOP legislators are introducing anti-czar legislation and GOP presidential hopefuls like Mitt Romney feel the need to include the talking point in their speeches.  

The reason this particular GOP meme has so fascinated me is that I thought I was beyond the capacity to be shocked by the dishonesty and stupidity of GOP talking points. After all, this is the same party that just recently decided to embrace Sarah Palin's "death panel" attack. But that attack, while despicable and deeply dishonest, was at least tied to reality in the slimmest of senses, i.e., it was a mischaracterization of an actual legislative provision. It also had the benefit of being intelligible.  Though crazy, it was at least easy to follow.  Creating a panel of bureaucrats charged with euthanizing old people and turning them into Soylent Green would indeed be a bad idea.   

The "czar" attack, though, is fundamentally different. It is not only dishonest and hypocritical but unintelligible and incoherent. Though certainly less significant in the grand scheme of things than other GOP attack memes, this one is, quite possibly, the stupidest, most intellectually embarassing political attack in the history of politics. If there is a theoretical level of Absolute Stupid in politics, a point at which our political discourse freezes because it cannot possibly get any dumber, this "czars" meme is getting perilously close to it.

For starters, it's not clear to me that those leveling this attack even understand what they are saying. Take for example Mitt Romney's comment:
When government is trying to take over health care, buying car companies, bailing out banks, and giving half the White House staff the title of czar – we have every good reason to be alarmed and to speak our mind!
Let's put aside for the moment the fact that Romney supported the bailouts and that the health care reforms being proposed are patterned after the bill he negotiated and signed in Massachusetts (this is Mitt Romney after all; you expect consistency?). Romney's reference to Obama's use of czars is typical of the kind of attacks leveled by Republicans recently. He's clearly just ticking through a checklist of wingnut buzzwords, things that he believes will have some special meaning to his intended audience of Glenn Beck watching GOP primary voters. It's kind of like someone who makes an inside joke that he doesn't really get because he thinks others will think it's funny. The problem is, I think the whole GOP establishment is like this. I don't think any of them actually understand what the criticism of "czars" is really about. They just know that their base is worked up about "czars" and so they're dutifully repeating that word as often as possible.

And it's not hard to understand why they're confused. As near as I can tell, Glenn Beck seems to have become fixated on "czars" because the word is Russian-sounding and he needed to come up with a word that started with "c" to save face after railing against Obama's burgeoning "Oligarhy" on national television. I kid, of course, but the truth is really not any less stupid.

As anyone who knows anything about Washington knows, the term "czar" is not an actual title, but a shorthand term used (primarily by the media) to describe various advisory positions with long bureaucratic sounding official titles. The term has been in use for decades and has been used just as much by Republicans and Republican presidents as by the current administration. As others have already pointed out repeatedly, the Bush administration was quite fond of such positions, appointing a record number of them (more than the Obama administration has). Moreover, these positions carry with them far less power than the name implies; they are generally just advisory positions, positions with much less power than your average cabinet secretary or deputy cabinet secretary. The notion that there is anything undemocratic or troubling about the use of such advisers is bizarre and clearly of very recent vintage.

But because the word "czar" is of Russian origin, Glenn Beck has apparently made it his mission in life to save America from them. Like a lobotomized Joe McCarthy, Beck rants about "communists" and "czars" in the same breath, something that no doubt makes both Lenin and the Romanovs spin in their tombs (I wonder if Beck realizes that Lenin himself was the original czar-hater?).

I also wonder what Beck will do when he realizes that President Obama is protected by a Gestapo-like cadre of plain-clothed agents known as the "Secret Service" (or shall we call them the "SS" for short?) I mean, what is this, Nazi Germany? Let me give you five words: Mustard (on hamburgers?!?), Empathy, NEA, ACORN, Secret Service. What's that spell? That's right, folks; it spells MENASS, as in MENASS to society. That's what Obama is, folks...

What's sad is that Beck and the GOP make parody hard. As dumb as the preceding paragraph is, it's really not any dumber than what Beck and the GOP are actually saying. This is what our political discourse has become.
Digg!

38 Comments:

Anonymous Anonymous said...

jon stewart said this of glenn beck a few years ago,"he [beck] says what people who don't think are thinking."

'nuff said.

5:30 AM  
OpenID eclecticradical said...

The 'czar' title was originally used in the phrase 'drug czar.' This was thought up by the media in the late 60s/early 70s to describe the head of Richard Nixon's newly formed government agency the Drug Enforcement Agency, to fight Nixon's newly declared 'war on drugs.' The title 'czar' was chosen because the DEA head was also supposed to have authority over the FDA head, and advise the president on drug policy across the board. So it sounded as if the new position was going to be really powerful.

To the best of my knowledge, 'drug czar' is the only way the word was used until the Bush Administration, when Bush appointed a 'terrorism czar' to fill the same symbolic role as Nixon's 'drug czar.' Of course, the terrorism czar's real title is the 'Director of National Intelligence' and now most everyone uses that title. No one calls him a czar.

As near as I can tell, and as near as anyone else has written, none of the individuals being attacked are even 'czars.' They are special advisors or mid-level mangers of a routine nature. The media typically uses the word 'czar' to describe someone with real or theoretical authority over one or more federal agencies and broad advisory/executive duties.

The media wasn't calling any of these guys 'czars' before Beck started. Nor do any of them fit the standard media definition.

It's getting to the point where I increasingly worry that 'something' is going to happen. The last time the sectional/cultural debate in this country was this strident and uncompromising, and the loony right so high in the saddle, was the civil rights era. While most people agree that ended fairly well overall, it was not a fun time to be around.

6:47 AM  
Blogger mls said...

AL- as you have so ably demonstrated, all of the conservative critiques of Obama have been dishonest and stupid. In fact, what we have is a “race to the bottom,” with each critique being more dishonest and stupid than the last. What’s worse, these attacks are working!

Clearly the so-called “marketplace of ideas” is malfunctioning, and reform is needed. While it is important that consumers have a choice of ideas, they need to be protected from ideas which are obviously wrong. That’s why I propose the establishment of the Government Criticism Czar, who will screen all ideas to make sure that they are not dishonest and stupid. To assure objectivity, I suggest that the post go to a journalist like Linda Douglas.

Some people will no doubt call this proposal “censorship.” Fortunately, this criticism is dishonest and stupid, so I have no need to respond to it.

8:50 AM  
Blogger A.L. said...

Yes, MLS, you've really figured me out. By saying that this particular GOP talking point is dishonest and stupid, I'm really saying that ALL criticism of Obama is dishonest and stupid and, furthermore, that we should engage in widespread censorship to stop all this criticism from occurring.

Of course, I didn't say any of that, but who cares what I actually say. MLS can read my mind and he knows what I really think.

9:10 AM  
Anonymous Eudaemonic said...

I'll go on record here as claiming that A.L. will soon have to retract the statement that the "Czar Nonsense" was anywhere near the level of Absolute Stupid. Soon--probably within the next month--I predict the GOP will prove that no, Stupid can go far lower.

9:15 AM  
Anonymous SteveAR said...

As dumb as the preceding paragraph is, it's really not any dumber than what Beck and the GOP are actually saying. This is what our political discourse has become.

As opposed to all that "smart" political discourse that has come from leftists and Democrats, like:

Bush=Hitler

Bush is setting up a dictatorship (which some on the right even use)

Bush will suspend elections

The United States is an Imperialist nation

"No blood for oil"

"No Nukes" (and hence, no new nuclear plants...for 30 years)

And that is just an extremely small sampling of "smart" discourse coming from the left and Democrats for some 40 years. In fact, the whole history of this country is rife with dumb political discourse, from all political parties and persuasions, that far exceeded anything that Beck and the GOP put out now. So I think the idea that the political discourse is somehow dumber now is actually dumb considering the asininity the country has had to endure from the left for the last several decades. Besides, Obama himself can't even contribute positively to the political discourse considering he likes to equate GOP ideas about health care reform, which are a change from the status quo, as keeping to the status quo, something that is demonstrably false. I don't think anyone on the left is believable or objective when criticizing the deteriorating political discourse since the left and Democrats have contributed mightily to the deterioration.

By the way, Van Jones, before he left his "green jobs czar" gig, had the responsibility of advising the President on how to spend $80 billion in Monopoly money (that is, borrowed money, money the U.S. doesn't actually have) to create these "green jobs". While it may not have been Jones' job to distribute the money, he did have a lot of pull in determining who the government would dole out the cash to. By any definition of the word, that is an example of real power. That $80 billion is about 10% of Porkulus.

9:47 AM  
Blogger A.L. said...

You're right, Steve, I had forgotten that some random member of Moveon.org had compared Bush to Hitler. So everything's equal!

The point is not that fringy people say fringy things. Of course that's always the case. The point is that the GOP establishment, including its leading members of Congress and presidential candidates embrace the fringe. Find me a major Democrat or a major liberal pundit who was promoting the Bush = Hitler theme or claiming that Bush would suspend elections. You can't. Democratic leaders and left-leaning pundits always distanced themselves from the crazies on the left. The GOP welcomes the crazies into the tent and repeats their crazy talking points.

9:53 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

"No blood for oil."

Yeah, that's crazy talk. Clearly, we'd still be very, very interested in what goes on in the Middle East if there was no oil there.

10:47 AM  
Anonymous MichaelW said...

As others have already pointed out repeatedly, the Bush administration was quite fond of such positions, appointing a record number of them (more than the Obama administration has).

Wow, rank dishonesty two days in row. Way to go, AL! Heck, even the Washington Post gets this one right by pointing that, prior to Pres. Obama, there were 13 "czars" positions, all but 5 of whom were subject to confirmation. Since Jan. 20, 2009, Obama has created 17 new "czars" only one of whom must be confirmed by the Senate.

Nice try though.

10:48 AM  
Anonymous SteveAR said...

A.L.:

I had forgotten that some random member of Moveon.org had compared Bush to Hitler.

The point is not that fringy people say fringy things.


You neglected to mention all the Bush=Hitler posters at all those anti-war rallies, right?

Moveon.org is fringy? If that's the case, then every Democrat in Congress who claims to be a "progressive" (which is the majority) is fringy. Which means that Moveon.org is actually part of the mainstream of Congressional Democrats.

By the way, it doesn't seem that Democrats like Barack Obama or others had a problem with Moveon's statements. There are a number of Democrats who have accepted money from Moveon.org's PAC in 2004, 2006, and 2008, including the President's campaign. These Democrats don't have to physically promote the Bush = Hitler meme since they don't have a problem taking the money of the group that promoted it.

Remember when the despicable Dick Durbin called those Americans guarding the terrorists at Gitmo Nazis and other things (and don't deny he believed it)? How was he punished? Oh...he was made Senate Majority Whip in 2007 and re-elected in 2008. He only issued his travesty of an apology after being criticized by his major benefactor, Mayor Daley (Daley's son had just joined the Army; I suspect Daley put the screws to Durbin, which is why Durbin cried like a little baby).

As far as major left-leaning pundits who would have supported it, it all depends on whom you would consider major. Maybe others on the left wouldn't consider those you believe are the major pundits as being so. I doubt you consider anyone I could mention as major.

11:01 AM  
Blogger A.L. said...

Steve. Learn. To. Read.

The Moveon ad was part of a contest in which members submitted ideas for ads. It was just one member, not the whole organization. The organization quickly removed the ad. Moveon is not a fringy organization. Like all organizations, it has some fringy people as members. So what.

Your single example of Democrats embracing the fringe was a Senator who made a reference to the Nazis while describing actual acts of torture committed by U.S. troops. And for that he was forced to grovel and apologize. No one embraced his comment. They all distanced themselves from it.

This example only proves my point, not yours.

11:10 AM  
Blogger A.L. said...

MichaelW, I've seen the number reported as 36 czar positions under Bush, with a total of 41 different czars. But let's accept your numbers for the sake of argument. Let's assume Bush only appointed 13 czars. Does that make this particular GOP attack any less stupid? If so, please explain how. It's not as if the exact number of czars appointed by Bush is the only (or even the primary) relevant fact here. Indeed it's pretty low on the list.

11:15 AM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

AL,

I've long found it remarkable - and to your credit, I suppose - how attractive your posts are to gadflies.

I agree with Eudaemonic, however. The Right will come up with something waaaay more stupid than Czar-gate - and soon. They have a genius for it - and your friends Mike and Steve will no doubt show up and find a way to defend them, rather than do what any good conservative of conscience would and should be doing right now, which is to recognize that their movement has been invaded from within by a mob of psychotic retards and that for the good of the party and the good of the country and the good of the world, someone with some conservative bonafides needs to stand up and reject their behavior.

The Republican Party right now is an international embarrassment of historic proportion.

And, I fear, a tragedy.

11:23 AM  
Anonymous Eudaemonic said...

@Michael@:
Wow.... rightie math. 36 equals 17. And up is down, war is peace...

At least you people are consistently inconsistent.

11:26 AM  
Anonymous Eudaemonic said...

@ Anonymous 11:23

Glad you agree. Good conservative of good conscience, is basically all I've ever been or tried to be.

Those people--"neocons"--ruined conservatism, ruined our country, and did everything they could to ruin our childrens' chances for the future.

Can we, as a nation, please stop referring to Beck, Limbaugh, Krauthammer, and the GOP as "Conservatives?"

They are the opposite of everything conservative.

11:31 AM  
Blogger Michael said...

MichaelW said... even the Washington Post gets this one right by pointing that, prior to Pres. Obama, there were 13 "czars" positions...
Easy to check
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._executive_branch_czars

[positions --- appointees]
Ronald Reagan 1981–1989 1 1
George H. W. Bush 1989–1993 2 3
Bill Clinton 1993–2001 7 10
George W. Bush 2001–2009 31 46
Barack Obama 2009– 32 35

You'll have to do better than Fox or Fox on 15th (The pay2play Washington Post)
Mike

12:02 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

to whit:

http://www.dailykostv.com/w/002169/

Looks like Fox is setting up to report on their inability to confirm reports that Obama gave good friend and fellow African muslim Qadaffi an under-the-table tug-job at the U.N. today.

We know he's got motive, and opportunity...

12:03 PM  
Anonymous MichaelW said...

Let's assume Bush only appointed 13 czars. Does that make this particular GOP attack any less stupid?

No, it just begs the question as to why you would push a lie. And what's "appointments" got to do with anything? It's the number of positions created, and in particular those which are not subject to confirmation, which has generated criticism. You should also note that the criticism isn't coming just from Republicans -- "The accumulation of power by White House staff can threaten the Constitutional system of checks and balances," Sen. Robert Byrd, D-W. Va., wrote in a letter to Obama.

It's not as if the exact number of czars appointed by Bush is the only (or even the primary) relevant fact here. Indeed it's pretty low on the list.

Then why did you bring it up and lie about it?

@Michael:

Even by those (rather glaringly incorrect) numbers, Obama has more czars than Bush. Again, the number of appointments is irrelevant (would it make any difference if a president nominated 21 people for SecDef if there is never more than one SecDef at a time?). It's the number of positions, and the number which aren't subject to confirmation, which is truly important.

And as for AL's suggestion that czars have no power, that's also blatantly false. The Auto Recovery Czar, Car Czar, Economic Czar, Health Czar, Stimulus Accountability Czar and Pay Czar are just some of the new positions who were not confirmed and yet have very real powers, which do get used. These are unaccountable administrators who do not answer to Congress and have no oversight other than the President. That's a fact, and that's a problem.

12:28 PM  
Anonymous SteveAR said...

A.L.:

The Moveon ad was part of a contest in which members submitted ideas for ads. It was just one member, not the whole organization. The organization quickly removed the ad. Moveon is not a fringy organization. Like all organizations, it has some fringy people as members. So what.

Oh, that's right. Moveon.org is as "pure as the driven snow". Like ACORN. And all leftists.

Your single example of Democrats embracing the fringe was a Senator who made a reference to the Nazis... And for that he was forced to grovel and apologize. No one embraced his comment. They all distanced themselves from it.

Really? Grovel, yes, but it was only Daley who forced Durbin to do that, nobody else. Apologize, no. He never did apologize; he made one of those non-apology apologies, never admitting that he said anything wrong. Other than Daley, the only person who matters to Democratic politicians from Illinois, show me the leftist pundits and Congressional Democrats who came out publicly against Durbin. And I don't mean just a single reference. Just because you say they did doesn't mean it actually happened.

Remember Pete Stark?

You gonna tell us lies like you’re telling us today? Is that how you’re going to fund the war. You don’t have enough money to fund the war or children. But you’re going to spend it to blow up innocent people if we can get enough kids to grow old enough for you to send to Iraq to get their heads blown off for the President’s amusement...

The truth is that Bush just likes to blow things up in Iraq, in the United States, and in Congress.


Stark gave an apology (it was better than the one Durbin gave), but only after the censure resolution against him failed. Congressional Democrats couldn't even put their money where their collective mouth is when it came time to actually do so. Stark was further "punished" by being given a seat at the House Ways and Means Committee, and is chairman of the one of the subcommittees.

And regarding the other references I pointed out, you aren't very convincing in saying it is the GOP and those like Beck who are responsible for the increasingly dumb political discourse in this country. Democrats and the left have had decades more practice at it. And they are doing nothing to curb their own dumb political discourse, starting with the President (my earlier reference).

12:29 PM  
OpenID eclecticradical said...

"You're right, Steve, I had forgotten that some random member of Moveon.org had compared Bush to Hitler. So everything's equal!"

Not just MoveOn.org. Bush was also compared to Hitler by a member of the German cabinet, specifically comparing his case for a war against Iraq with Hitler's case for a war against Poland and its necessity to 'defend' Germany against Polish 'aggression.'

Now we all know that bringing Nazis into a discussion means you've automatically lost, so the guy at MoveOn.org should have been a bit brighter.

But there were real parallels between the propaganda campaigns leading up to the invasion of Poland and the invasion of Iraq. There were also real similarities between the political tactics of the Rove machine and that of the Goebbels machine, which accused liberal candidates in republican Germany of being pedophiles, homosexuals, draft dodgers, and mentally ill.

The primary difference is that the people who compared Bush to Hitler were not suggesting that Bush was planning a Holocaust. The people comparing Obama to Hitler are.

1:08 PM  
Anonymous SteveAR said...

A little over a month ago, John Leo mentions a few Democrats (including a Clinton judical appointee) and leftists who engaged in "smart" political discourse after Nancy Pelosi claimed to be "shocked by the presence of some swastikas at protests against Obamacare":

Mainstream commentary featured Nazi references too. Both Senator Robert Byrd and billionaire Democrat George Soros said Bush reminded them of Herman Goering.

During the 2004 presidential campaign, Al Gore used the term "brownshirts" (Nazi street thugs) to refer to Republican computer teams assigned to respond to criticism of Bush and the Iraq war.

Vanity Fair magazine nominated Richard Perle for the Goebbels role, running photos of both men under the headline "Separated at Birth?"

New York Times columnist Frank Rich managed to work in a reference to a famous Nazi filmmaker. He said a Showtime program on 9/11 was so favorable to Bush that it is "best viewed as a fitting memorial to Leni Riefenstahl."

The Rev. Andrew Greeley, sociologist and novelist, depicted Bush as a Hitler figure who carried American over to "the dark side."

Federal appeals judge Guido Calabresi offered a comparatively mild Nazi reference, saying the Bush's rise to power was reminiscent of the rise of Hitler and Mussolini, with the Supreme Court pushing him into the presidency with the Bush v. Gore decision.


All are verifiable with a little help from Google.

Leo ends with this:

As far as we know, Nancy Pelosi never complained about any of this. Maybe she didn't notice.

Apparently A.L. didn't notice any of this either.

A.L., tell me again "The point is that the GOP establishment, including its leading members of Congress and presidential candidates embrace the fringe" and that it's only "The GOP welcomes the crazies into the tent and repeats their crazy talking points." It seems to me that the Democrats not only welcome in the crazies, they are the crazies.

eclecticradical:

The primary difference is that the people who compared Bush to Hitler were not suggesting that Bush was planning a Holocaust.

Bull.

1:17 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Steve, Michael,

I'll give you guys credit for loyalty, but honestly - and I write this as both a patriotic American AND concern troll - if you took half the time and energy you spend here defending the abject lunacy of what currently passes for political discourse from the Right, and re-directed into actually righting the Conservative ship, the world would truly be a better place. Here, you are defending as legitimate arguments that were never intended to be legitimate in the first place. They are nonsense buzzwords tossed out in front of angry ignorami for the purpose of selling soap. That's all. Grow up, recognize that, and figure out a way to topple to faux-populist hate-mongering snake-oil salesman who have your party in thrall. Until you do, you're going to continue to be on the outside looking in.

GBA.

1:21 PM  
OpenID eclecticradical said...

'eclecticradical:

The primary difference is that the people who compared Bush to Hitler were not suggesting that Bush was planning a Holocaust.

Bull.'

Simply saying 'bull' is not an argument or a refutation. No one has ever accused Bush of planning a Holocaust. No one has ever accused Bush of establishing death camps. Bush's means of subverting constitutional power were compared to various European dictators who have done so in similar ways, his propaganda operation (both political and policy propaganda) was compared to that of the Nazis, and he was accused of using similar tactics to Hitler to start an unjustified war. Fact, not bull.

He was never accused of instigating a Holocaust in any form. Fact, not bull.

To paraphrase Mike Nichols, I understand it's not that you don't get it, Steve. It's that you can't sell it. That's fine.

Just don't expect people who do get it to believe what you're trying to sell.

2:40 PM  
Blogger Jazzbumpa said...

Once again Steve manages to totally derail the conversation.

Congratulations on your unbroken string of successes.

Also, what GBA said.

JzB

3:09 PM  
Anonymous MichaelW said...

Here, you are defending as legitimate arguments that were never intended to be legitimate in the first place.

Tell it to Sen. Byrd, Sen. Feingold and Prof. Bruce Ackerman.

3:39 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well said and spot-on, Anon. Bully!!

3:53 PM  
Anonymous SteveAR said...

eclecticradical:

Simply saying 'bull' is not an argument or a refutation...

He was never accused of instigating a Holocaust in any form. Fact, not bull.


Saying "Bull" like I did is quite appropriate. You didn't prove anything, all you did was say something and attempted to tell me that because you said it, it is fact. It doesn't work that way. You aren't believable. Maybe you should view the Pete Stark video I linked to earlier.

Remember, A.L. tried to say the only mainstream leftist/Democratic source of the Bush = Hitler meme was some "fringy" Moveon.org person, and every leftist and Democrat distanced themselves from it. As I showed, that is simply not true as mainstream Democrats (and I didn't even cover mainstream lefties) used that meme quite often over the last eight years.

Anonymous (1:21pm):

I'll give you guys credit for loyalty, but honestly - and I write this as both a patriotic American AND concern troll - if you took half the time and energy you spend here defending the abject lunacy of what currently passes for political discourse from the Right, and re-directed into actually righting the Conservative ship, the world would truly be a better place.

Maybe you should tell it to President Obama since he worsens the political discourse just about every time he talks. Like I said earlier, Obama says those who oppose his "reform" want to keep to the status quo. That is demonstrably false. Obama just doesn't want to hear those plans. Instead of admitting that he doesn't want to hear about them, he says those plans don't exist. How does it help the political discourse when the President can't engage in it responsibly?

Before anyone says Bush did the same thing, so what? Obama is the President now, not Bush. Obama promised a "new kind of politics", and in his inauguration speech said he wanted "an end to the petty grievances and false promises, the recriminations and worn out dogmas, that for far too long have strangled our politics." So what has he done? Engage in petty grievances and false promises, recriminations and worn out dogma. Seems to me all that Obama has done is practiced the same ol', same ol'.

4:28 PM  
OpenID cockingasnook said...

"If that's the case, then every Democrat in Congress who claims to be a "progressive" (which is the majority) . . ."

Ah, if only that were so.

Nance

4:42 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Before anyone says Bush did the same thing, so what?

We bring this up in order to show you that the things you are getting breathlessly hysterical about, haven't really occurred (no pimps got Acorn $, the NEA has not become Obama's brownshirts, Obama is not a setting up a commie government complete with "czars", etc.).

Furthermore, we point out the many instances of Bush's corruption, dishonesty and illegality because it's really more important when something actually occurs and is not just a figment of the imagination of the many right wing blowhards that you blindly follow.

But please continue with your long, obnoxious screeds nitpicking on every perceived indiscretion and misstep because " Obama is the President now, not Bush." And we all know that's what really bothers you.

7:37 PM  
Anonymous Bill Keane said...

Such a shame to see every A.L comment thread ruined by bad faith commenting. I'm not advocating banning and nobody wants to have a sterile festival of furious agreement. I admire the way A.L gives everyone the benefit of the doubt and engages thoughtfully, even with the silliest point. I just wish that commenters putting opposing points of view were doing so out of a desire to debate honestly. Instead, we get GOP activists deliberately trying to poison the well.

8:55 PM  
Blogger trizzlor said...

It's becoming very difficult not to conclude that most of the anti-Obama rhetoric stems from a complete misunderstanding of how government works.

Here we have a fairly large extremist block literally calling for the President to not have advisers. During a historic recession and two wars, immediately after an administration known for its "generous" executive privileges, the president is supposed to ... fire his advisers? Stop paying them? Abdicate their appointment to the legislative branch? What exactly is the counter-proposal here. And yet GOP congressmen are busily drafting legislation to limit this heretofore unknown power of the president to get advice on issues.

Of course, this isn't even the first time blatant political ignorance has permeated the GOP opposition. The "Read the Whole Bill" crowd also imagines that a typical senator should tack on his powdered wig, flick on the wine-bottle/candle and single-handedly sift through the legal intricacies of cap-and-trade or the stimulus cover to cover. To them, seeing a senate office full of staffers, lawyers, and researchers must be like meeting the Oopma Loopma's in Willie Wonka's factory.

Since the opposition here seems game to play the "He started it" game, here's a suggestion: Name me one time an elected Democratic congressman criticized Bush for the audacity to have advisers or not reading every line of a bill.

1:23 AM  
OpenID eclecticradical said...

'You didn't prove anything, all you did was say something and attempted to tell me that because you said it, it is fact. It doesn't work that way. You aren't believable.'

I actually appreciate the irony of this remark. Thank you for making me smile.

I would tell you a story about a glass house and a rock, but I think it would go over your head. It is the fundamental conservative tactic to accuse the opposition of great evil when they dip their toe into a cesspool in which the right regularly swims.

The moral outrage of the immoral, the ethical standards of the unethical, the intellectual chauvinism of morons, and the calls for truth of liars began to bore me in the 1990s. I am less dismayed now by the fact that the basic rhetoric and tactics of the right have not changed than I am that even people ON the right can still tolerate it.

7:20 AM  
Anonymous SteveAR said...

eclecticradical:

I actually appreciate the irony of this remark. Thank you for making me smile.

Glad to provide the service.

I appreciate that you actually saw irony in my statement. I find that your finding irony in what I said quite ironic. I also find ironic your mentioning a story of a glass house and a rock as it relates to conservatives, because I could say the same about the left, especially those who support Roe v. Wade. Not those who believe it is established law; I don't have a disagreement there. Just that those who support Roe actually believe overturning it would threaten the Constitution and those supporters' ideas of "morality".

But in any event, let me add something. I never disagreed with A.L.'s basic premise that the GOP or those like Beck aren't doing anything to better the political discourse; I never, in any of my comments, defended either Beck or the GOP on this. But to think Democrats and the left have done anything at all to improve the political discourse is ludicrous; I've shown plenty of examples to prove my point. A.L. rants about how dumb the "other side" is as it relates to these "czars" (personally, I think it's a dumb word to use, but not with the positions themselves). But, A.L. never explains why Beck and the GOP are incorrect in their assessments, especially since A.L. is a lawyer who could find in two seconds the reason why the GOP and Beck are more than likely wrong.

Everyone knows that the Advice and Consent Clause exists. But what isn't explained by A.L. (et al.) is all of the Clause:

The President...shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

Beginning with the word "but", the argument about advisors being unconstitutional is incorrect. This doesn't appear to be something well-known to the American public. Van Jones in his former position as a "czar" wasn't put in there unconstitutionally. By law, the position can be established. I would agree with anyone that said the right is overreaching on this whole "czars" thing.

Despite being a lawyer, A.L. chose to say that Beck and the GOP were being dumb, providing a useless and long-winded approach to bolster his argument. But the real reason why A.L. is right is actually in the law, something a lawyer could find quickly; I'm not a lawyer and I found it.

It would also seem to me that a law professor, which is what President Obama has been, could also make this argument as part of the "new kind of politics" he said he wanted to put in place; it would shut up critics quickly. But it doesn't seem to be "sexy" to explain things like this properly; making political points seems to be more important that keeping campaign promises. Unfortunately, that is a completely bipartisan (or rather, "multi-partisan") problem.

So for those on the left who want to discuss a story about a glass house and a rock as it pertains to the right should see that it pertains to them as well.

8:36 AM  
Blogger C2H50H said...

Absolutely, A.L., when writing your excellent and thoughtful posts you have to consider that some of your readers will have no understanding of the law or the Constitution, and no desire to acquire any before they make asses of themselves.

It therefore behooves you, when writing pithy material, to not omit the obvious, even when it could be discovered in ten seconds using Google.

It would probably also save a lot of wear and tear on some readers if you were to allow for selective perception and make sure to explicitly negate everything you don't intend to assert.

More difficult, of course, is how to overcome, in writing, the inability of some to read and comprehend. Perhaps you could include, with each post, a cartoon version?

9:10 AM  
Blogger nerpzillicus said...

Steve-

Advisers are not Officers - they do not hold a public office of trust under the laws of the United States. They have no authority under color of law to create rules, enforce rules or laws, or to adjudicate disputes. All they do is advise the President, who in turns holds the Constitutional office of Chief Executive. If you want to argue they should make all advisers officers, fine (unnecessary and illogical, but fine). But the reason why AL does not make the argument you make is because it is wrong. It isn't "but" that is important in that clause, it is "officer" that is. Axelrod, Gibbs, etc, are not "Officers" like Geithener or Lisa Jackson.

9:15 AM  
Anonymous SteveAR said...

nerpzillicus:

Then the positions are unconstitutional, correct? Which makes Beck correct, right?

9:28 AM  
Blogger nerpzillicus said...

Steve-

No. The point of the Advice and Consent clause is to create a check and balance of power. The President is not permitted, unless the Congress allows him, to appoint Officers that are not vetted by the Senate. Thus, those deputies, with the power of the executive branch to enforce the law, are consented to by the Senate, so it has a veto over choices it objects to, and the President is limited in who he can pick, so hopefully more qualified candidates are placed in positions of authority.

Saying the advisers are unconstitutional would be akin to saying the Press Secretary, Legislative aides, or Supreme Court law clerks are also unconstitutional. The actual authority for the action taken by the Constitutional actor, be it the Supreme Court Justice, Congressperson, or President or Officer is held by that person, who was elected or appointed pursuant to the Constitution. Thus, while a Supreme Court clerk may research and draft an opinion, it is only Constitutional because the Justice signs off on it. A Legislative Aide may draft a bill's language, but it won't become law unless the actual elected Congressperson signs off and submits it to the legislative process. And executive rulemaking can only be done pursuant to the agencies organic laws and procedures. So, the President can retain an economic adviser, or Green Jobs adviser, or Car Czar, but those jobs only involve researching and formulating policy. If the President wants to implement the policy, he must either submit suggested legislation to the Congress, or have the actual officer of the agency with jurisdiction over the subject matter begin the rulemaking process. The advisors have no "power" as understood under the Constitution. There is no difference between them and an Op-Ed columnist, an academic, or bloggers or commenters, who voice a policy position or plan. Except the President is more likely to listen to them, and they are more likely to have access to people who can give them input from people and industries potentially affected by a change in policy. But they cannot independently do anything (as opposed to Officers with duties and powers given to them under the laws of the United States).

These positions are commonly thought of as implied powers granted the the branches by their Article in the Constitution, i.e. the legislative power granted to the Congress implicitly allows Congresspeople to have legislative aides to assist them in crafting legislation. The government has operated like this for two hundred years. That is why this is a bogus concern.

10:21 AM  
Anonymous SteveAR said...

nerpzillicus,

Thanks for taking the time to provide an explanation.

12:32 PM  

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