A Question for Clinton Supporters
I know that there are many of you out there who vastly prefer Senator Clinton to Senator Obama. I know you think that she's more qualified and better equipped to beat John McCain in the general election. I know you think that Clinton has been unfairly treated by the media and that the primary system is all screwed up. I've read all your blog posts. I've heard all your arguments. And while I disagree with you about most of these points, I don't doubt that you genuinely believe all of these things.
My question, though, is this: what realistic outcome are you still holding out for?
At this point, even if Michigan and Florida are counted in exactly the way the Clinton camp wants them to be (which is not going to happen), Obama needs only a very small fraction of the remaining delegates to secure the nomination. Clinton would have to win the three remaining contests by higher than West Virginia margins and then secure virtually all of the undeclared superdelegates. That's just not going to happen.
And even if did, do you really want it to? Have you considered the inevitable consequences of such an outcome? As furious as you feel about the way Hillary has been treated in this race and the way the Florida and Michigan delegate situation has been handled, imagine how Obama supporters will feel if, at the very last moment, the superdelegates were to decide, en masse, to award the nomination to the candidate who finished second in the elected delegate race. Do you really think that they'll view Clinton as the legitimate nominee? Would you if the situation was reversed?
The bottomline is that Clinton no longer has a plausible path to the nomination, and the implausible paths that remain are ones that no one who cares about the Democratic Party should be encouraging Clinton to walk down.
My question, though, is this: what realistic outcome are you still holding out for?
At this point, even if Michigan and Florida are counted in exactly the way the Clinton camp wants them to be (which is not going to happen), Obama needs only a very small fraction of the remaining delegates to secure the nomination. Clinton would have to win the three remaining contests by higher than West Virginia margins and then secure virtually all of the undeclared superdelegates. That's just not going to happen.
And even if did, do you really want it to? Have you considered the inevitable consequences of such an outcome? As furious as you feel about the way Hillary has been treated in this race and the way the Florida and Michigan delegate situation has been handled, imagine how Obama supporters will feel if, at the very last moment, the superdelegates were to decide, en masse, to award the nomination to the candidate who finished second in the elected delegate race. Do you really think that they'll view Clinton as the legitimate nominee? Would you if the situation was reversed?
The bottomline is that Clinton no longer has a plausible path to the nomination, and the implausible paths that remain are ones that no one who cares about the Democratic Party should be encouraging Clinton to walk down.
posted by A.L. at 10:38 PM
19 Comments:
There are several hundred super delegates. They can change their mind on a dime.
Further, at the convention, while delegates are "pledged" to a specific candidate, these delegates can vote for either candidate at the convention.
Finally, between now and the convention there will most likely be tons of dirt about Obama - a reality check - will surface.
People who favor Obama are in denial and buyer's remorse has begun to set in for many of them, and will be setting in for many others.
Obama is a narcissistic fool. A shame and an embarrassment, not much different than our current office holder.
People who favor Obama have blinders on. I say to these idiots the same thing I said to right-wing friends in 2000 who were voting for W: What is it that you don't understand? What about this idiot don't you see?
But, in 2000 those right-wing fools were too blinded by their own selfish, self-serving goals by voting for W to see or care about the damage he would do to our country. They were more focused on the instant gratification.
Today, Obama's "hope" and "change" is no different than Dubya's "Uniter, not a Divider" slogan was in 2000. It's empty rhetoric. As empty as Dubya was then, and as empty as Obama is today.
And, if you don't see that, A.L., you really need some intensive, need I say inpatient, therapy, Dude. Because you and the rest of these Obama supporters are deluded.
Obama is an empty suit.
I was right in 2000. I am right today.
And, yes, they will view Hillary as a legitimate nominee, because it will be Obama's (whether Barack Hussein's or Michelle's) own doing - own self-destructive behavior - that will bring them down. Obama's narcissism is a self-destructive, self-sabotage pattern. He uses false pride, ego, grandiosity, etc., as compensatory strategies to offset his lack of self-esteem. These patterns cause him to over compensate at the expense of others. Look at the sexist insults, etc., he hands out on a daily basis. He gave Hillary the middle finger and the crowd went wild. He knew it, the crowd knew it. The media ignored it. And, that is the "kid gloves" the media has covered Obama with throughout this entire campaign. That is why I say there is so much dirt in his background that has never been brought out which the republicans will bring out. Obama is not electable.
And, the real question is: Why do you all really want another fool for a president? What does it take for you to want a competent, qualified office holder? Haven't you learned your lesson after eight years of GWB? Why another four years of incompetence? Yes, Obama is incompetent.
Obama is a passive wimp who takes his orders from the verbally abusive Michelle. Michelle, who thinks the world owes her, and who wants to know where her trust fund is, since Obama found out he is related to Dick Cheney.
Aren't you really proud, A.L.? Wasn't eight years of Dubya enough of this childish immature shit for a president of the U.S. already?
You watch, McSame will select Jeb Bush as his VP and Obama will lose the general election. Then, you will have eight years of Jeb.
Nice blast. You're not doing your cause any favors.
And thanks for answering the questions A.L. posed.
Wow, you ask a simple question and the hate and anger just pour out! I say this: Obama is going to be the nominee, we all know that, no matter if Hillary takes it to the convention or not. If you don't want to vote for Obama, then don't!! Vote for McCain, you will get what you deserve, more war, no healthcare, all the goals that Hillary and Obama stand for, gone for at least 4 years. If it is worth satisfying your hate of Obama to plunge your children into that future, then so be it! I just find it hard to understand how folks can hate one person so bad when their own candidate is so transparently shallow, has 50% negative perception, and lies about her experience (Bosnia). Maybe they are both not so hot, OK? but why sink this country into 4 more years of Bush style "leadership"? Does your lovve for Hillary mean more than your love for America?
Hey anon,
When you call fact and observation hate and anger, you must be projecting your unresolved issues. You may want to follow along with A.L. for a visit the funny farm. :-)
I think Mr./Ms. Anonymous sums up the Hillary camp's position nicely. Well, maybe not "nicely," but accurately, at least. Simply put, they're full of irrational hatred for Obama. Trying to glean a rational response from such a fanatic is a rube's game.
Unfortunate response. Perhaps another Clinton supporter will take a shot at it. A lot of anger out there.
I'm well aware that Senator Clinton and her supporters think she alone can win the general. Unfortunately (or fortunately, depending on your view) one's opinion doesn't win you the nomination.
In all the information I have seen, all parties agreed at the outset that FL and MI would not be seated at the convention. Does someone else have different information? I've often wondered if the Clinton camp would be as adamant about changing the rules were Obama's and Clinton's positions reversed...
Back to A.L.;s question...I am truly interested in why Senator Clinton is pursuing this path...and, can someone manage an explaination without using desparaging language?
I once commented at a pro-Hillary site about how I used to be pro-Hillary too, but have been convinced otherwise. I added that I wasn't the maniac they accuse Obama supporters of being. Many responses were along the lines of "this isn't about race!!" (which I didn't even imply). It was as if they are hiding in bunkers and all the pro-Obama crowd is screaming "RACIST! at them. Note I'm aware the above poster didn't make this comment in his/her post.
All the other replies were recitations of how the numbers could be construed to let Hillary win.
It was very weird. I find their opposition to "Obamabots" very ironic.
Dudes, she could easily get the nomination if Obama gets assassinated Kennedy-style, right?
Oh, is it not funny that she said that yet? :)
Clinton cannot win the nomination, but she can set a precedent for future fights to go to the convention without fear that it will destroy the party.
It's been so long since either party has had a convention battle, and it's become accepted wisdom that the party who decides on a nominee first is the likely winner, that I think both parties are a little sheepish at the idea that a primary fight might go past Super Tuesday.
I think that Clinton is damaging the Democratic brand with her campaign tactics, but she won't stop Obama from winning in November. Given that internet fundraising is likely to allow more than one candidate to survive the primary season, this race may be a template for future battles in both parties.
With that in mind, I think it is encouraging that the person with the better campaign strategy is the winner and the person who went negative is the loser. I'm happy for Clinton to stay in the race as long as it takes to drive that home.
Those who vilified '00 and '06 Nader supporters as "spoilers" are preparing to become spoilers themselves.
Laughing. My. Ass. Off.
A pox upon the namecallers/blasters on both sides of our nomination campaign.
I believe we have had an outstanding group of candidates for the Democratic nomination. Dodd, Richardson, Biden, Edwards, Clinton, and Obama are all capable of greatness as President. It is maddening that some supporters of Obama and some supporters of Clinton have managed to become so embittered. We need the supporters of all of these fine candidates.
I am currently supporting Obama, but I still admire Clinton.
There is NO reason for any Obama supporter to discuss Hillary Clinton now except to praise her. Alienating Clinton admirers means alienating voters we must have to win. Obama will be our candidate. He is no shoe-in. We must turn our attention to November.
Remember 1980 and 1968.
I challenge every Obama supporter to either find something good to say about Hillary Clinton, or say nothing at all about her.
It is time to come together.
Look who voted for Obama. His 50% is constituted by 92% of the AA community (racism), and 30% of whites/others.
All Obama succeeded in doing is split-and-divide. Polarized the Democratic party.
Life long Democrat
Won't. Vote. For. Obama.
Not. Now. Not. Ever.
Obama has no chance of winning in November. None. Zero. Zip. Nada. Zilch. Won't happen.
I would vote for (R) or (I) before I would ever vote for Obama.
The onus is on you all. Are you going to vote for a loser (Obama) and put someone else in the White House, or are you going to vote for a winner (Hillary).
If by some chance he is elected, you will look back some day with regret and wish you hadn't voted for Obama.
This above comment is just simply stupid. Factually, mindlessly wrong. It's stuff like this that really alienates rational people, and why Hillary isn't going to be the nominee. If this is the kind of supporter Hillary is getting, no wonder she's in a tough spot.
The HRC camp just can't comprehend that there are actual valid reasons to prefer Obama, so they hallucinate all kinds of paranoid excuses for that preference - it's racism, or some kind of Cult, or a Plot. These folks should go outside and walk around in the fresh air for a while.
For what it's worth, I voted for HRC in the CA primary. I've changed my mind about her because of her campaign and behavior. I didn't need extensive brain-washing to see the obvious.
The "I would vote for (R) or (I) before [voting] for Obama" says he/she is not basing this on the real world. You actually want more Bush? Then fine, vote that way. But if you think more Bush is the better alternative to Obama, then there's a problem.
If Clinton managed to steal the nomination from Obama, I'd be mad as hell - but I'd vote for her in November. Not so much because I "like" her but because we need a Democrat Administration no matter what.
AL feel free to delete this (my) post; I might be less 'balanced' than this blog deserves.
I'm finding it pathetic that all that so many Hilary supporters are resorting to the ad homonym attacks as seen above.
Look, I realize that some people strongly believe Hilary's the best candidate. I'm not saying that she doesn't have positives. At some point, though, each candidate's followers have to ask themselves whether they want four more years of a faltering America or four years to start a turnaround. It sickens me to think that there are people on both sides who would accept that instead of voting for the other candidate. Listen, supporters of Hilary: she fought hard - but she trails in everything. To ask Obama to concede is to demand something the numbers don't give you: the nomination.
Obama has definitely NOT polarized the party. Does he have strong support from the African American community? Sure - but when did that become a bad thing? As for white voters - no one is able to win over 100% of the electorate. Some people genuinely disagree with him and prefer another's politics. Fine by me. He's definitely won his share of white voters (and those of all other colors and ancestries), myself included. If you're referring to those who won't vote for a black man simply because he's black and holding it against him as "polarizing the party," then you're just enabling racism. That's not something to call out Obama for - that's something to deal with socially.
Look, all in all, it was a tough primary season, but we have to focus on the fact that we're Democrats. Hilary and Obama agree on many of the issues, and are only separated slightly on others. Would you really prefer to see a President McCain?
If the answer is yes...then I feel bad for the children and grandchildren who'll have to deal with nearly permanent occupation in Iraq (and likely a bloody war in Iran), a crumbling economy, lack of health care, and institutionalized domestic spying. Is THAT worth not voting for Obama?
Wow, two posts on one day! I was gonna put you on my "don't check daily" group of websites, don't let me down, dude! You'll be happy to know I teach English to the most expensive lawyers in this town in the Black Forest where I live and we often read texts from you and Greenwald and Marcie (and you know who I mean), often with the original article with it so your dissection is complete. Please don't let work get in the way of shining light...
This anonymous guy is really schizophrenic!
It's interesting that no one has answered AL's question yet.
Lots of foaming and abuse, but still no answer:
"What realistic outcome are you still holding out for?"
The realistic outcome is the same as for every other close contender who has reserved their options for the convention. They can better influence the platform and the debate.
I love Obama but I do not care for his amateur, cry-baby, oversensitive, supporters who are such poor winners and so stupid as to deride the very folks they depend upon for victory. Obama only got half of the vote. Hillary got the rest. She received more actual primary votes than any candidate in history, for heaven's sake. We need those votes or John W. McCain will appoint the next Supreme Court justice. This is not some sort of frat election. Grow up.
Instead of shooing away those who admire Clinton, we should be welcoming them to an ever-expanding big friendly tent. Our candidate is way ahead of you on this. He has been gracious, as has Clinton. It is time for the supporters of both to follow their lead.
But if you must spew vile, face McCain.
Once again, we come together or we lose!
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