Previewing a Giuliani Presidency
I rarely praise anything that appears in the Weekly Standard, but Matthew Continetti's profile of Rudy Giuliani is actually pretty good. Though I think Continetti gives Giuliani far too much credit in some areas, he does a pretty good job of identifying the defining aspects of Giuliani's character and worldview:
Toward the end of the piece, Continetti discusses Giuliani's formative years as a prosecutor, and quotes Giuliani at length as he rails against the exclusionary rule and other "rights of accused criminals." When asked how his experience fighting crime is relevant to fighting terrorism, Giuliani responds:
Needless to say, no one is suggesting that there should be no wiretapping or no aggressive questioning of suspected terrorists. We are suggesting that wiretapping be done with warrants(as required by law) and that aggressive questioning not cross the line into torture (which is illegal and morally reprehensible).
What's also telling is that Giuliani sees only the consequences of not pushing the moral and legal envelope. He grimly warns us that we need to consider the consequences of not illegally torturing and wiretapping people. But engaging in these practices has its own set of consequences, a fact to which Giuliani seems completely oblivious. The Bush administration's ill-advised foray into the realm of torture has deeply tarnished America's image abroad. It has, among other things, drastically reduced our soft power and influence, put U.S. soldiers and personnel at greater risk, and significantly fanned the flames of Islamic extremism. And the Bush administration's blatant violation of U.S. law (both in the areas of surveillance and torture) has done lasting damage to the separation of powers and our constitutional framework generally.
It is important that people understand that Giuliani is not some sort of throwback moderate Republican. The closest analogue to Giuliani in the Republican party is Dick Cheney, and I suspect that a Giuliani presidency would not be much different than a Cheney presidency (in other words, it would be much like the Bush presidency, but withhold anyone playing the angel to Cheney's devil). If that's what people want, then so be it. We live in a democracy. But I hope that people come to understand over the next year (or sooner) that there is very little about Giuliani's beliefs and general worldview that can be accurately labeled "moderate."
[I]t would be a stretch to say that Giuliani is an adherent to the set of political ideas known as Reaganism. Giuliani adheres to Giuliani-ism. Where Reagan emphasized the enduring possibilities of freedom, Giuliani emphasizes the duties freedom imposes on citizens--the most important of which, in his opinion, is the duty of citizens to respect the law. Where Reagan set strategic goals, delegated authority (sometimes too broadly), and allowed room for his agency heads to innovate, Giuliani is a top-down executive known for micromanagement and for employing every possible legal authority to achieve his ends.Whether you call him an authoritarian or a "legalistic disciplinarian," the key point here is that Giuliani is the kind of guy who will constantly push the envelope in order to achieve his goals. He's Cheney on a bad day, the kind of guy who would hire a thousand David Addingtons and place them in every corner of his administration.
He also happens to have been one of the most effective chief executives in modern American history. Some view his doggedness, his maximalist position on every issue and the tactics he adopts, as a form of "authoritarianism," but that term is intended to insult rather than describe. It would be more accurate to call him a legalistic disciplinarian. And, indeed, one of the striking aspects of Giuliani's career is that, while he has tacked right in his quest for the 2008 nomination, his worldview seems to have remained consistent at least since his prosecutorial days. And one word best describes it: grim.
Toward the end of the piece, Continetti discusses Giuliani's formative years as a prosecutor, and quotes Giuliani at length as he rails against the exclusionary rule and other "rights of accused criminals." When asked how his experience fighting crime is relevant to fighting terrorism, Giuliani responds:
"Someone once said to me that what they don't get about the Democrats, and even some Republicans that do this, is they're more concerned about rights for terrorists than the terrorists' wrongs," Giuliani went on. "I mean, this granting of rights to criminals and terrorists, even when they're necessary, come with a price, a price at the other end of it. Even for the ones that are necessary, like, let's say, the Miranda ruling, it's one you agree with--there's a price for that. Maybe it's one worth paying. The exclusionary rule, there's a big price for that: Criminals go free. They walk out of court. If you say, you know, no aggressive questioning, then we're not going to find out about situations. If you say no wiretapping, well, there'll be conversations going on, planning to bomb New York, or Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and you're not going to find out. And, when we draw these lines, at least let's be honest with people about the consequences of them. Let's not fool them into thinking that there are no consequences to this. People will say that aggressive questioning doesn't work. I, you know, I . . . Honest answer to that is, it doesn't work all the time. Sometimes it does."This is what we have to look forward to if Giuliani becomes president. For him, it's a debate between people who want to bestow rights on "criminals and terrorists" and those who want to prevent bombs from blowing up our cities. And the scary thing is, I can't tell whether Giuliani is engaged in shameless straw man politics here or whether he actually believes this (and I'm not sure which is worse).
Needless to say, no one is suggesting that there should be no wiretapping or no aggressive questioning of suspected terrorists. We are suggesting that wiretapping be done with warrants(as required by law) and that aggressive questioning not cross the line into torture (which is illegal and morally reprehensible).
What's also telling is that Giuliani sees only the consequences of not pushing the moral and legal envelope. He grimly warns us that we need to consider the consequences of not illegally torturing and wiretapping people. But engaging in these practices has its own set of consequences, a fact to which Giuliani seems completely oblivious. The Bush administration's ill-advised foray into the realm of torture has deeply tarnished America's image abroad. It has, among other things, drastically reduced our soft power and influence, put U.S. soldiers and personnel at greater risk, and significantly fanned the flames of Islamic extremism. And the Bush administration's blatant violation of U.S. law (both in the areas of surveillance and torture) has done lasting damage to the separation of powers and our constitutional framework generally.
It is important that people understand that Giuliani is not some sort of throwback moderate Republican. The closest analogue to Giuliani in the Republican party is Dick Cheney, and I suspect that a Giuliani presidency would not be much different than a Cheney presidency (in other words, it would be much like the Bush presidency, but withhold anyone playing the angel to Cheney's devil). If that's what people want, then so be it. We live in a democracy. But I hope that people come to understand over the next year (or sooner) that there is very little about Giuliani's beliefs and general worldview that can be accurately labeled "moderate."
29 Comments:
Actually, we don't live in a democracy. We have the fiercely anti-democratic structure called the "electoral college."
How quickly we forget President Gore--who won the popular vote.
*SIGH!*
Perhaps it would help to define, in your opinion, what a "moderate" is--in our current political landscape. You and Greenwald both use this term when discussing Giuliani, but don't define it.
You mention that a Giuliani presidency would look much like a Bush/Cheney presidency. I think this is correct. But so would a Romney presidency.
CO,
I would define a moderate Republican as a non-ideologue pragmatist. There used to be a lot of these people in Washington. Now there are almost none. Arlen Specter and Olympia Snowe are examples of this dying breed. Giuliani is an ideologue and feirce partisan, as are all the other Republican presidential candidates (except Ron Paul, who's an ideologue but not a partisan).
Romney used to be a moderate, pragramatist Republican, but he's reinvented himself for national politics. Giuliani has always been the way he is.
a.l.,
OK, that seems workable to me. Would you say that the same definition would also fit moderate democrats?
SCARY is stumbling across Giuliani addressing the Federalist Society on TV as I did the other night. I don't know which of the two is more frightening, but he certainly worked them to heights of ecstatic applause with the same ferocious rhetoric you highlight here, after which every other word was 911. (Greeted with more applause by the true believers.)
You nail it with the observation that he's Cheney on a bad day, & even worse, he'll pack his administration with an Addington in every corner.
I had nightmares after watching that telecast, seriously.
I guess I should point out that there is nothing anti-democratic at all about the electoral college. It was arrived at through democratic procedures, and can be eliminated by them. It was instituted for extremely sound reasons too numerous to explain here. Gore is not the first man to win the popular vote and lose in the electoral college; I believe he is the third or fourth.
It won't surprise any of you to learn that I will vote for Giuliani in the Republican primary, and that if he is the nominee I will vote for him in the general election. He will get my vote in the primary simply because I believe him to have the best chance in the general.
That doesn't mean I don't have long-standing problems with the man; I do. In my view he was an unprincipled, politically ambitious prosecutor, and a politically ambitious prosecutor is among the most dangerous creatures in America today.
I suppose the game about the dwindling GOP moderates--the non-ideological pragmatists--can be played across party lines. The Democratic party used to be loaded with such people, e.g JFK, Scoop Jackson, Sam Nunn, John Stennis, Zell Miller, Walter Mondale. Now it is a tool of MoveOn.org, the Daily Kos and George Soros. Evan Bayh may be an exception; I can't think of any others--except perhaps Barack Obama, who is going to be eaten alive by the most corrupt political machine since Nixon.
Off-topic, but by the way, A.L., the Supremes are going to hear the appeal of the D.C. Circuit ruling on the Second Amendment.
It says here they didn't take it to affirm, and they'll reverse it 5-4. And I don't have to list the five and the four for anyone here...
OK, that seems workable to me. Would you say that the same definition would also fit moderate democrats?
I think so. And I think there are a lot more moderate Democrats than moderate Republicans. There's no better evidence of that than looking at how the Senate has voted over the last decade or so. When it was under Republican control, there were very few filibusters and quite a few votes that passed with significant Democratic support. Since the Democrats have taken over, there have been seemingly endless filibusters and very few Republicans have crossed over to vote in favor of Democratic bills. That's because there are very few moderate GOP Senators and quite a few moderate Democratic Senators. It's very asymmetrical
Senate voting patterns...hmmm...
A.L.'s assertion about them may well be correct, but he offers nothing other than his subjective conclusion. Meantime, a quick Google search of "Senate voting pattern 2004" yields up a statistical analysis by some UCLA profs of a number of votes selected for them by the ADA (of all people). To the extent that the results are comprehensible at all, they suggest that the body was as polarized then as it is now (if not moreso). All the GOP are on one side, all the Dems on the other, except for the following "moderate" names that creep toward the middle: McCain, Chafee, Specter, Snowe, Zell Miller, Jeffords and Breaux. That would be four Republicans, of whom three are still serving; two Democrats, both of whom are no longer in the Senate, and one weirdo.
The cite (I think) is http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=senate+voting+patterns+2004
Correction: here's the UCLA study.
http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:EEttRrWlMbsJ:repositories.cdlib.org/cgi/viewcontent.cgi%3Farticle%3D1015%26context%3Duclastat+senate+voting+patterns+2004&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us
But wait, there's more: It develops that, each year, the National Journal publishes an analysis of voting patterns in the House and Senate. The most recent published year was, natch, 2006. As part of their analysis, they include a category they call "The Centrists." For 2006 there were 23 Senators who earned that appellation, in the eyes of the eminenently centrist journal.
Seventeen of them were Republicans.
You can see for yourself here:
http://nationaljournal.com/voteratings/pdf/06centrists.pdf
Neutral,
Though I don't have time to delve into the National Journal's methodology, I've got to question any ranking system that lists Thad Cochran, Richard Shelby, Bob Bennet as "centrists."
Furthermore, I suspect that part of the problem is a failure to take into account partisan voting behavior. The Republicans, regardless of their ideology, have been far more willing to act as a unified party to block legislation. There is no question that the use of the filibuster has shot off the charts under the current Congress. The Democrats were far more willing to allow their members to cross the aisle and vote in favor of Republican sponsored legislation.
Bill Bradley observed (I think in his "congress is broken" speech given about the time he left the senate) that either ideological wing, left or right, can kill legislation, but only the center can successfully produce it. This strikes me as true, and points to yet another malfunction of congress (there are so many)--the center these days is relatively weak, and has lost effective control.
"There is no question that the use of the filibuster has shot off the charts under the current Congress. The Democrats were far more willing to allow their members to cross the aisle and vote in favor of Republican sponsored legislation."
I think those two sentences are almost entirely unrelated to each other. And I think the first is true and the second is not (refraining from filibustering does not mean crossing the aisle).
The National Journal's methodolgy was to review votes on a variety of bills, and designate each vote as either liberal or conservative. Each Senator's composite liberal score and composite conservative score totaled 100. A composite liberal score of 100 (and thus 0 conservative) placed a Senator at one end of the spectrum, and conversely. A Senator was designated a Centrist if his composite liberal score was between 35 and 65. Cochran, Shelby and Bennett may come across as fascist hyenas on the talk shows (or not), but their voting patterns speak for themselves.
I believe this Congress has seen an unprecedented number of Senate filibusters, but that doesn't in and of itself tell you a great deal. Its frequency of use has varied greatly over the years, and there are myriad other procedural means of blocking or stalling legislation. And as we saw when the GOP threatened the "nuclear option," the cloture rule is a creature of the Senate itself, and the Senate can change it any time it has the balls to do so.
In short, I think both parties are hugely, and identically, partisan. And I think things took a very big turn for the worse with the Bork hearings, and nothing has been the same since.
Part of the problem with this whole debate about "moderates", "centrists", and "liberal" and "conservative" is that the terms are ill-defined and have different meanings when viewed from opposite sides of the "liberal/conservative" spectrum.
A "liberal" would, by definition, be more open to compromise. What does "moderate" mean in this light? Someone who is only a raving lunatic most of the time, like Zell Miller? Seems to me that, under this definition, "confused" or "opportunistic" might be a good synonym for "moderate."
One problem with the first study Neutral cites is that ADA is taken as the ultimate arbiter of liberal-ness. Sorry, folks, but there is no ultimate arbiter of liberal-ness, which, by its very nature is ... liberal in its definition. Another problem with the study is that it uses the speeches of congress members to score them. Sorry, political speech is essentially meaningless. Even voting patterns are not worth as much as you might think, given the way vote-trading games are played in both houses.
This is another example of "how to avoid giving information using statistics" -- the methodology is the same as when it is claimed that the "average wage" of a group of 100 is 200K because one person makes 200K*100 while all the others make nothing.
While the facts in the UCLA study are fine, I think they convey little or no information as to the willingness of those in the Congress to compromise.
"A 'liberal' would, by definition, be more open to compromise."
Hmmm...whose definition is that? I, myself, my opt for "of or befitting a man of free birth," but that would likely raise hackles on the Left. I would be proud to be considered an 18th-Century liberal, but would reach for my revolver if accused of being a 21st-Century one. I suppose that, while we're engaged in definitions, I would define "conservative" as "a virtuous person determined not to suffer fools gladly."
I don't offer the ADA as the ultimate arbiter of liberal-ness, and I don't understand the National Journal to be doing so either. Anyone who has a better-credentialed arbiter to offer is encouraged to step forward; those who contend that there is no such arbiter must accept that no proposition about liberalness can be either proved or disproved.
I may have missed something, but my understanding is that the National Journal study doesn't use political speeches at all--it confines itself solely to the utterly objective measure of votes on legislation.
And if anyone were to offer the "average wage" in the cited example as having any significance, I would respond that a much more meaningful measure would be the median wage, which would be zero. But how on earth is the Journal's methodology related to that example, anyway?
Finally, if the UCLA study conveys nothing about willingess to compromise, what other study should we consult? Or should we content ourselves with saying simply that "my side is willing to compromise, yours isn't, and nyah-nyah-ni-nyah-na." (I suspect that the latter is what is going on here.)
"in other words, it would be much like the Bush presidency, but withhold anyone playing the angel to Cheney's devil"
This is more in the way of a quibble. It's been a hell of a long time since anything resembling an angel wandered through 1600 Penn. Ave.
"Stooge/puppet" might work for present circumstances.
Bulletized for clarity:
1. Look up "liberal" in the on-line merriam-webster dictionary. Then look up the sayings of one Grover Norquist, a guiding light of the conservative movement. (Note to Mr. Neutral: few people care what anyone's personal definition of a "conservative" is.) Make up your own mind about which kind of person, conservative or liberal, is more likely to be willing to compromise.
2. As I said earlier, vote-trading (and other methods) in Congress reduces the effectiveness of using voting patterns to classify members. I would argue that vote-trading is an insurmountable problem for measuring "willingness to compromise".
3. When measuring a quality, a group, even a small group, which is extreme in this quality, will skew the average.
4. Absent the definitive study, we'll have to make up our own minds about who, in Congress, is willing to compromise more. Personally, I think anybody willing to approve Mukasey for AG or support amnesty for telecoms who illegally gave information to government isn't "moderate" -- they're either confused or a right-wing at heart.
To get back to the subject at hand, I think Giuliani is not moderate, merely amoral and unprincipled. Whether his narcissism is stronger than his authoritarianism is hard to tell. My personal suspicion is that it's the narcissism that is fundamental.
Only a fool would support this individual for President. If he's elected (chances of which are growing more remote every day) we'll all suffer, not just the fools who supported him.
For C2h50h:
I did look up the definition. And as I said, I opted for "of or befitting a man of free birth."
Count me as a fool--if Rudy's the nominee, I'll vote for him, and I note that Zogby today has him drubbing Hillary.
You are the first person I have ever seen characterize Grover Norquist as a guding light of anything. He's certainly no guiding light to this conservative.
I maintain that conservatives and liberals are equally willing to compromise, and nothing you have said even tends toward changing my mind on that. And my guess is that the number of people who would be interested in what one's "personal definition of conservatism" is is roughly equal to those who would be correspondingly interested in a definition of liberal.
Where you stand on such matters as these depends largely on where you sit. And in distancing yourself from such liberals as Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein on the Mukasey nomination, you have disclosed your position as that of an extremist. And you maintain that those who disagree with you are, ipso facto, right-wing at heart or confused. (So much for willingess to compromise.) What kind of child would place those two Senators in either of those categories?
Finally, if you don't think votes in the legislature tell us anything about a person's locus on the political spectrum because of vote-trading (the essence of compromise), and at the same time lambaste those who do it for their unwillingness to compromise, I don't think there's much anyone can do for you.
Neutral, Al Gore didn't lose the 2000 election due to the Electoral College. That fiasco was generated by a partisan Supreme Court. And they were so convinced that what they did was wrong that they noted that future Courts were not to use it as a precedent.
"He's Cheney on a bad day."
I'm not a fan of Giuliani, but I had to laugh, because I'm quite sure that a Hillary presidency would be Cheney on steroids on a REALLY bad day.
I'm truly hoping someone else gets the Democratic nomination.
I'm also hoping the Republicans end up with a decent candidate.
I don't want to be voting for the "Lesser of Two Evils" again.
"And in distancing yourself from such liberals as Chuck Schumer and Dianne Feinstein on the Mukasey nomination, you have disclosed your position as that of an extremist."
A "conservative" deeming support for the rule of law as the "extremist" position. 9/11 changed everything all right.
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