How to Legislate Like a Seven-Year-Old
(updated below) (updated again)
Today, as Democrats in the House were preparing to hold a vote on their version of the FISA bill (which I discussed here), the Republican minority introduced an amendment designed to derail the bill. Here's a description of the amendment from the website of Representative who introduced it, Eric Cantor (R-Va):
The Republicans might as well have offered an amendment "clarifying" that "anyone who votes against this amendment is gay." That's about the level of maturity we're talking about here. It's the kind of stuff that would embarass most seven-year-olds.
And sure enough, a number of Democrats were sufficiently frightened by the prospect of being unfairly attacked in future campaign ads that the Democratic leadership couldn't secure enough votes to defeat the amendment and had to withdraw the bill from the floor. Predictably, Republicans responded by attacking them in just the way they would have had they voted against the amendment. Here's Eric Cantor in an update to his website:
When will Democrats ever learn? Here's a bit of unsolicited advice for wavering Democratic politicians: in case you haven't realized it yet (and God only knows how you haven't) your opponents are, for the most part, absolutely shameless, and they will unfairly attack you no matter what you do and no matter how you vote. So if you are going to let clowns like Eric Cantor intimidate you with idiotic stunts like this, find another profession and let someone with more of a backbone take your place.
Even putting aside this amendment, it's clear that Republicans are more than willing to simply mischaracterize the bill itself and attack Democrats with lies. If you need proof of that, look no further than today's editorial in the Washington Times. The editors write:
In other words, just about every statement made in the editorial is demonstrably false, yet the Democrats are accused of reaching "new heights of intellectual dishonesty." But no one should be surprised by this. This is the way policy arguments have gone for at least the last 20 years. Republicans in Congress and their allies in the conservative media have no qualms whatsoever about blatantly misrepresenting the basic facts of the debate. They'll do so in editorials, in public statements, in campaign commercials. It doesn't matter. So it is utterly pointless to worry about how Republicans might characterize your vote. They'll say what they are going to say no matter what you do.
UPDATE: Apparently the Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee have reached some sort of deal with the White House on FISA legislation. The bill would include a provision granting retroactive immunity to the telecom companies for participation in illegal surveillance. According to the Washington Post:
Still, I find it more than a little presumptuous that Rockefeller and the other Democrats on the intelligence committee would approve legislation granting such sweeping immunity when they know that the Bush administration has no intention of providing any information to the rest of Congress regarding what these companies actually did. They are essentially taking it upon themselves to decide the issue on behalf of everyone else and expecting their colleagues to legislate blindly. And it also doesn't help, as Glenn points out, that Rockefeller is one of the top recipients of contributions from the telecommunications industry.
The bottomline is that amnesty for these companies should not even be on the table until everyone in Congress has some understanding of what they did. Bestowing retroactive legislative immunity on anyone is a big deal; it's an extraordinary measure. It would take an important issue out of the courts and virtually ensure that none of these activities are ever subject to judicial scrutiny. As Glenn points out, if any of the presidential candidates currently in the Senate (Clinton, Obama, Dodd, Biden) want to win some major points with Democratic primary voters, finding a way to show real leadership on this issue would be a surefire way of doing that.
UPDATE: Chris Dodd steps up to the plate and places a hold on the amnesty bill. A smart move by Dodd. A missed opportunity for his rivals.
Today, as Democrats in the House were preparing to hold a vote on their version of the FISA bill (which I discussed here), the Republican minority introduced an amendment designed to derail the bill. Here's a description of the amendment from the website of Representative who introduced it, Eric Cantor (R-Va):
Today, we will be offering an amendment to the legislation to clarify that nothing in the bill “shall be construed to prohibit the intelligence community from conducting surveillance needed to prevent Osama Bin Laden, Al Qaeda, or any other foreign terrorist organization…from attacking the United States or any United States person.”This language is so silly and vague that I doubt it would affect how courts interpret the rest of the statute. But the point of the amendment wasn't so much to change the law substantively, but rather to put the Democrats in a bind. They could either approve the World's Stupidest Amendment, thereby injecting uncertainty into the bill and forcing it to go back to committee, or they could face the prospect of future Republican campaign commercials claiming that they had literally voted against giving the government the power to protect Americans from Osama Bin Laden.
The Republicans might as well have offered an amendment "clarifying" that "anyone who votes against this amendment is gay." That's about the level of maturity we're talking about here. It's the kind of stuff that would embarass most seven-year-olds.
And sure enough, a number of Democrats were sufficiently frightened by the prospect of being unfairly attacked in future campaign ads that the Democratic leadership couldn't secure enough votes to defeat the amendment and had to withdraw the bill from the floor. Predictably, Republicans responded by attacking them in just the way they would have had they voted against the amendment. Here's Eric Cantor in an update to his website:
House Democrats have pulled the FISA bill. They are so desperately against allowing our intelligence agencies to fight OBL and AQ, that they pulled the entire bill to prevent a vote.Got that? The Democrats are "desperately against allowing intelligence agencies to fight OBL and AQ." How's that for shameless demagoguery?
When will Democrats ever learn? Here's a bit of unsolicited advice for wavering Democratic politicians: in case you haven't realized it yet (and God only knows how you haven't) your opponents are, for the most part, absolutely shameless, and they will unfairly attack you no matter what you do and no matter how you vote. So if you are going to let clowns like Eric Cantor intimidate you with idiotic stunts like this, find another profession and let someone with more of a backbone take your place.
Even putting aside this amendment, it's clear that Republicans are more than willing to simply mischaracterize the bill itself and attack Democrats with lies. If you need proof of that, look no further than today's editorial in the Washington Times. The editors write:
Deception and political skullduggery are hardly new developments in the nation's capitol, but the House Democratic leadership has reached new heights of intellectual dishonesty in its spin campaign for legislation to change the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act (FISA), which reaches the House floor today. . . .After once again rehashing the already discredited claim that FISA was somehow responsible for the death of a trio of soldiers in Iraq, the editors conclude with this:
The Democrats claim the measure is a "compromise" that will ensure that U.S. intelligence agents can spy on terrorists and the like while preventing dark forces in the Bush administration from being able to spy on Americans whenever the spirit moves them. The most harmful features of the legislation include provisions that would require a court order to gather communications when a foreign terrorist tries to contact someone in the United States. From 1978, when FISA was first enacted, until this year, no such requirement existed.
The RESTORE Act would effectively enshrine this kind of idiocy that endangers our troops as the law of the land. For the Democratic leadership, pandering to the left-wing blogosphere and the ACLU is apparently a higher priority than the safety of American GIs fighting al Qaeda.This is just flat-out wrong on about fourteen different levels. First, the original FISA did require warrants for interceptions to or from someone within the United States. In fact, it required individual, particularized warrants (though it did have an emergency provision allowing intelligence officials to seek a warrant after the fact). The RESTORE Act does away with the individual warrant requirement and instead allows the government to seek a blanket court order for intercepting international communications of this sort. Indeed, this is why the ACLU strongly opposes the bill (so much for pandering to the ACLU). Moreover, the RESTORE Act has emergency provisions that allow the government to conduct this sort of surveillance without even a blanket court order for up to 45 days.
In other words, just about every statement made in the editorial is demonstrably false, yet the Democrats are accused of reaching "new heights of intellectual dishonesty." But no one should be surprised by this. This is the way policy arguments have gone for at least the last 20 years. Republicans in Congress and their allies in the conservative media have no qualms whatsoever about blatantly misrepresenting the basic facts of the debate. They'll do so in editorials, in public statements, in campaign commercials. It doesn't matter. So it is utterly pointless to worry about how Republicans might characterize your vote. They'll say what they are going to say no matter what you do.
UPDATE: Apparently the Democrats on the Senate Intelligence Committee have reached some sort of deal with the White House on FISA legislation. The bill would include a provision granting retroactive immunity to the telecom companies for participation in illegal surveillance. According to the Washington Post:
It will include full immunity for those companies that can demonstrate to a court that they acted pursuant to a legal directive in helping the government with surveillance in the United States.I haven't seen the actual wording of this provision, but if it does in fact require companies to show the court some sort of contemporaneous legal directive in order to qualify for immunity, that's at least an improvement over some of the immunity provisions that have been discussed (which would have simply granted full immunity without any showing of evidence).
Still, I find it more than a little presumptuous that Rockefeller and the other Democrats on the intelligence committee would approve legislation granting such sweeping immunity when they know that the Bush administration has no intention of providing any information to the rest of Congress regarding what these companies actually did. They are essentially taking it upon themselves to decide the issue on behalf of everyone else and expecting their colleagues to legislate blindly. And it also doesn't help, as Glenn points out, that Rockefeller is one of the top recipients of contributions from the telecommunications industry.
The bottomline is that amnesty for these companies should not even be on the table until everyone in Congress has some understanding of what they did. Bestowing retroactive legislative immunity on anyone is a big deal; it's an extraordinary measure. It would take an important issue out of the courts and virtually ensure that none of these activities are ever subject to judicial scrutiny. As Glenn points out, if any of the presidential candidates currently in the Senate (Clinton, Obama, Dodd, Biden) want to win some major points with Democratic primary voters, finding a way to show real leadership on this issue would be a surefire way of doing that.
UPDATE: Chris Dodd steps up to the plate and places a hold on the amnesty bill. A smart move by Dodd. A missed opportunity for his rivals.



20 Comments:
Sorry, A.L. - while I agree with you points, I am disappointed with your approach of hitting this type of propaganda as an isolated thing.
The bias you refer to is PAR FOR THE COURSE - its been going on for years - there is a rightwing noise machine.
It has been ratcheted up ever since an alcoholic, cocaine addict, AWOL loser was fraudulently hoisted on the American public as a legitimate presidential candidate. At the same time, a qualified, intelligent man with real credentials and experience was constantly hammered and slammed by the same mainstream media.
You post - just like every other post you make of this nature - does not address the FUNDAMENTAL and FUNCTIONAL causes of the issues you seem to want to address.
Call yourself a liberal if you like - post any definition you like - but REAL liberal would talk about the structural causes of the problems that face the nation.
Anything else is just noise and grandstanding.
Indignation and faux "surprise" that "gee, look at the dishonest reporting and analysis here" is not helpful - but I know it is par for the course for the set of blogs you associate with.
Expecting the "truth" from the same media, pundits, and political interests that proclaimed America wanted to "have a beer" with an obnoxious drunk, cocaine addict, and AWOL "decider" is insanity.
It was all a lie then - it is a lie today - and it is insanity to expect anything different from these people.
Insanity = doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
I am afraid that the above comments are true to a point. To expect the right to be shamed when their falsehoods are exposed is indeed insane. They believe that liberals or the left or whoever opposes their world view is a manifestation of the anti-christ. When engaged in a holy war no tactics are forbidden. It is unfortunate that rational people still expect rational behavior from the right. It isn't going to happen. It is very appropriate to call them on their distortions but it is silly to expect a change in behavior.
The House Dems are pathetic. That stupid republican amendment would have been nullified with a quick amendment by the Democrats: No part of this bill or its amendments will be construed to allow for warrantless eavesdropping on the communications of American citizens.
Unfortunately, the invertebrates in Congress fail to have the relatively good brains of an Octopus and instead have the brains of earthworms or flatworms.
As I have repeatedly stated in recent months, sanity and the grownups will prevail, and Mr. Bush will get substantially everything he wants on this issue, which is a huge benefit to the security of the country. As everyone knows, President Hillary is going to want the same powers, and she will have them.
"Legal directive"? That's awfully vague. Is an NSL a "legal directive"? That's not much of an improvement. The "legal directive" must a warrant issued by the judiciary.
Chris Dodd is going to put a hold on this bill.
You dopes are going to lose on this one, as sanity suggests you certainly should. Accept it. Find another sport.
neutral - you show up in the threads and say the same lies over and over again....
But no one believes you - hope you feel good with your little daily keyboarding exercises though.
You are part of the 24% crowd - essentially irrelevant when it comes to swaying public opinions. I guess that explains your consistent dishonest rhetoric and your need to try and have the last word in every thread - after all - the rest of America does not believe you, the chimperor, your lies, and the talking points you spew.
Seth - point I am trying to make is that the only meaningful dialog when we consistently see the MSM lying liars "catapulting the propaganda" of a wildly unpopular pResident, is a dialog about the structual biases and consistent lies from the mainstream media.
Anything else, such as A.L.'s constent - "gee, look, they are lying" actually empowers the charade.
Time to connect the dot and stand up for REAL liberal ideas and traditions - the most important part of which is a dialog about structural barriers that create and enable the things we want to change.
Anonymous said: "You post - just like every other post you make of this nature - does not address the FUNDAMENTAL and FUNCTIONAL causes of the issues you seem to want to address.
"Call yourself a liberal if you like - post any definition you like - but REAL liberal would talk about the structural causes of the problems that face the nation.
"Anything else is just noise and grandstanding.
"Indignation and faux "surprise" that "gee, look at the dishonest reporting and analysis here" is not helpful - but I know it is par for the course for the set of blogs you associate with."
Anonymous, why don't you enlighten us as to the "structural causes" that endanger us all? Seems to me you're just contributing to the "noise" & name-calling yourself, as opposed to trying to promote constructive dialog.
I happen to agree that a constructive conversation with the right-wing noise machine is impossible, & only proves that old adage that when liberals allow the noise machine to define the terms of the debate so stupidly, they must be careful lest, to an onlooker, they BOTH look like peurile infants. The Democrats, & the MSM, should indeed know better than to allow themselves to trapped in hog wallow of stupidity.
The problem as I see it is that most Americans don't have the time nor energy to research & ferret out the truth. We do count on the MSM to report accurately & thoroughly. And when they do not?
I'm not sure how much more you expect Anomymous Liberal to do in the interest of exposing this inanity. But I AM certain that you're not really advancing the project by beating up on him/her.
I urge you to treat us to a link to your own dissertation/thesis on the fundamental, functional, structural causes, and the one true way to overcome them?
Hmmm...the 24% crowd? Surely that can't be the crowd that approves of the Democratic-controlled congress--the number is way too high.
Please specify each and every lie I have told.
ummmm....
Neutral - you are just showing your dishonesty again.
The dem controlled congress has low approval ratings BECAUSE THEY HAVE NOT HELD YOUR CHIMPEROR ACCOUTABLE.
It in no way means anything you say has anything more than marginal support at the fringes....
But keep coming here and lying - that's what lying liars do.
They lie.
Princess....
I am not your monkey - if you can't do this yourself - I am not here to enlighten people that choose to be stupid.
Just saying that it is so tiring to see this circle of blogs/links constantly express outrage at each and every incident of dishonest punditry and journalism and not connect the dots.
But if you want to know more - finding that information isn't hard - but I choose not to provide links to condescending folks that are too lazy or ignorant to check things out themselves.
I am waiting for my lies to be identified...
Princess,
Anonymous (@3:48PM) cannot be bothered to actually engage in honest discussion. He just insults people when they engage him, or even if they ask questions. This appears to be a case of delusions of brilliance, which I believe we ought to humor by ignoring him.
As to the question of how we're going to reform the corporate MSM, that would seem to be hopeless, given the nearly religious corporatist bent of today's American society. Corporations, under American law, have risen to levels of power and influence that are unassailable by even the smaller state governments -- how will any group of private citizens reform them?
I suggest supplementing them via the internet, with bloggers, such as the invaluable Glenn Greenwald, A.L., TPMmuckraker, Digby, to give us the context we need in order to interpret events.
In other words, I think we need to have more posts calling the liars on their lies, and we need to ramp up the readership of these blogs. I recommend them to people, especially young people, all the time.
American corporate law is not substantially different from the laws governing coporations throughout the civilized world. They are, of course, controlled by their shareholders, who have a plenitude of rights guaranteed them under law. And everything those corporations do at the direction, or with the consent, of the shareholders is subject to regulation, and in appropriate cases punishment, but the state and federal governments.
Private citizens who wish to "reform" them may readily do so by electing legislative majorities that will enact whatever reforms are desired. Groups of private citizens who are nuttier than fruitcakes, and who take direction from signals received through their aluminum skullcaps, are not likely to be successful at this undertaking.
Neutral,
And your basis for asserting that "American corporate law is not substantially different" is based on what? This is a rhetorical question, to help you in the future -- I'm merely suggesting that a search for a smidgeon of evidence that you didn't pull the assertion out of your nether regions might produce a learning moment for you.
As for the ability of shareholders to control corporations, perhaps you should find some of the minor shareholders of Enron, Tycho, Microsoft, or AT&T and ask them how much control they had over the actions of their corporations.
As to legislative majorities, you display your ignorance: the Senate requires a supermajority to vote cloture, as amply illustrated by the current Congress. Truly fundamental reform, within the law, requires electing 60 senators, a majority of representatives, and a President who will not veto it.
On the other hand, if those who are supposed to be responsible for enforcing the law encourage breaking it (such as, for example, by AT&T), there is literally no recourse except the occasional election. See you then.
Dear c2h50h, I have no intention of briefing the corporate laws of the other nations of the civilized world to you. I have dealt extensively with those laws, and am quite familiar with the ways in which they work. If you have some basis for disagreeing with my asserion, please let me know. (If you ever undertake a study of American corporate law, you will appreciate, for example, the extent to which that body of law derives from the English common law. But I'll leave that to you.)
I don't know what you mean by "minor" shareholders of the companies you have named. I do know that the shareholders--minor and major--of Enron and Tycho--were victims of criminal conduct, and that the perps are doing long, hard time, and rightfully so. Those shareholders have also recovered billions of dollars through civil actions.
So far as I know, the shareholders of AT&T and Microsoft (including me) have done quite well. As for the encouragement of "lawbreaking" by AT&T, please wake me when some prosecutor of competent jurisdiction charges them with a crime.
As to Senate procedure, the supermajority requirement is one entirely of their own making, and could be rescinded overnight (see, e.g., the Republican threat to do just that with respect to judicial nominations). When you allude to internal procedures adopted by a legislative majority, please don't be so patently dumb as to accuse me of "ignorance" of how those procedures came to be. If you don't like them, elect a Senator who promises to change them.
You've got to do a lot better than this to avoid being publicly embarrassed.
Neutral,
I'm sorry, I can't take you seriously.
By lacing your arguments with pathetic little insults, providing no evidence, and arguing by assertion, you reveal yourself to be interested more in cheap shots than in serious argument.
Unless you can come up with something serious and compelling, I see no reason to respond to you.
Your knowledge of corporate law, and how it has been woven into the structure of American society, may be extensive. You certainly haven't demonstrated anything except a willingness to make assertions without evidence.
The shareholders of Enron will no doubt be relieved to hear that they've recovered their lost savings. You go tell them, I wouldn't presume to steal your thunder.
Also, your argument that they were the victims of criminal behavior does nothing to disprove my contention that they had little to say about the operation of the company they owned.
You may have done quite well with your investments, and, indeed, you may be happy to own stock in companies that make their money through what would be, except for having good lawyers and a complaisant DoJ, considered extortion, theft, or violations of privacy, but you have no real say in their operations.
If you want to be taken seriously, drop the insults, and don't try to argue by assertion.
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