Obama's Speech
Barack Obama gave a major foreign policy address today. I've read the transcript, and, on the whole, I think it was excellent. Unfortunately, one particular passage of the speech is overshadowing the rest. At one point, Obama said:
But these are the very same people who were the loudest supporters of Bush's unimaginably reckless decision to invade Iraq (which predictably destabilized the region, bogged down our armed forces indefinitely, and empowered Iran). They cheer loudly whenever any Republican says something "tough," and scoff at those who worry about unnecessarily antagonizing the world. And many of them are on record as favoring a military strike against Iran, an act that would almost surely set off a cascade of disastrous consequences. But when someone suggests that we might want to go after the very people who attacked us on 9/11 and are currently regrouping and planning further attacks in relative safety, that person is branded as a very unserious, reckless neophyte.
Captain Ed comments: "One would hope that this would mark the end of Barack Obama's credibility as a presidential candidate." Yes, indeed, it is much more credible to lump all Muslims into one undifferentiated mass and proclaim that we should "double Gitmo"--a la Mitt Romney--or to hyperventilate and scream at people while offering only meaningless slogans like "stay on the offense"--a la Rudy Giuliani. They are very serious, credible people. Not like Obama.
And it wouldn't be a right-wing attack without some blatant straw man argumentation, so Malkin, Morrisey and others all make it sound as if Obama is in favor of declaring war against Pakistan and invading the country, rather than sending a special-ops team or a cruise missile to Waziristan (and even then only *if* we have actionable intelligence regarding the location of top al Qaeda leaders)--a plan that the Bush administration itself came very close to pulling the trigger on in 2005.
Moreover, we all know that if these very same words had been uttered by George Bush or Dick Cheney or Rudy Giuliani, that virtually every one of these conservative pundits would be screaming "Hell yeah!" and accusing everyone else of "not getting it."
That said, criticism of Obama's position isn't confined to the reflexively partisan Right. Jerome Armstrong and others on the Left were also highly critical of Obama. Armstrong writes:
The unilateral nature of our invasion of Iraq was problematic because we lacked sufficient military and monetary commitments from other countries. That left us to foot the bill and bear all the burden. The recklessness and unprovoked nature of the invasion also angered much of the world, harming key alliances and fueling widespread anti-americanism. A surgical strike against al Qaeda bases in Waziristan would be relatively cheap. And it's not at all clear to me that such a attack, particularly one authorized by a President Obama, would create any real international backlash. People understand why we want to take out Bin Laden.
Moreover, does Armstrong really want a foreign policy that doesn't prioritize disrupting al Qaeda? I'm all for a less interventionist, less bellicose policy toward the Middle East, but if there's one thing we should be doing, it's going after the organization that attacked us. Though I hate to admit it, I agree with Joe Klein:
All in all, though, I don't see what is reckless or unserious about making it clear that we cannot tolerate the very same people who attacked us on 9/11 being allowed to regroup, rebuild, and plot against us in safety. But that's what's happening right now in the hinterlands of Pakistan. Something's got to be done about that.
As President, I would make the hundreds of millions of dollars in U.S. military aid to Pakistan conditional, and I would make our conditions clear: Pakistan must make substantial progress in closing down the training camps, evicting foreign fighters, and preventing the Taliban from using Pakistan as a staging area for attacks in Afghanistan.Now putting aside the merits of this position for a moment, I find the reaction of right-wing bloggers and pundits to this proposal to be almost too hypocritical for words. The near universal reaction was to criticize Obama's plan (and even his speech itself) as reckless. Yes, suddenly folks like Michelle Malkin, Ed Morrissey, and John Podhoretz are nuanced realists who worry about the potentially negative consequences not only of military action, but tough rhetoric as well.
I understand that President Musharraf has his own challenges. But let me make this clear. There are terrorists holed up in those mountains who murdered 3,000 Americans. They are plotting to strike again. It was a terrible mistake to fail to act when we had a chance to take out an al Qaeda leadership meeting in 2005. If we have actionable intelligence about high-value terrorist targets and President Musharraf won't act, we will.
But these are the very same people who were the loudest supporters of Bush's unimaginably reckless decision to invade Iraq (which predictably destabilized the region, bogged down our armed forces indefinitely, and empowered Iran). They cheer loudly whenever any Republican says something "tough," and scoff at those who worry about unnecessarily antagonizing the world. And many of them are on record as favoring a military strike against Iran, an act that would almost surely set off a cascade of disastrous consequences. But when someone suggests that we might want to go after the very people who attacked us on 9/11 and are currently regrouping and planning further attacks in relative safety, that person is branded as a very unserious, reckless neophyte.
Captain Ed comments: "One would hope that this would mark the end of Barack Obama's credibility as a presidential candidate." Yes, indeed, it is much more credible to lump all Muslims into one undifferentiated mass and proclaim that we should "double Gitmo"--a la Mitt Romney--or to hyperventilate and scream at people while offering only meaningless slogans like "stay on the offense"--a la Rudy Giuliani. They are very serious, credible people. Not like Obama.
And it wouldn't be a right-wing attack without some blatant straw man argumentation, so Malkin, Morrisey and others all make it sound as if Obama is in favor of declaring war against Pakistan and invading the country, rather than sending a special-ops team or a cruise missile to Waziristan (and even then only *if* we have actionable intelligence regarding the location of top al Qaeda leaders)--a plan that the Bush administration itself came very close to pulling the trigger on in 2005.
Moreover, we all know that if these very same words had been uttered by George Bush or Dick Cheney or Rudy Giuliani, that virtually every one of these conservative pundits would be screaming "Hell yeah!" and accusing everyone else of "not getting it."
That said, criticism of Obama's position isn't confined to the reflexively partisan Right. Jerome Armstrong and others on the Left were also highly critical of Obama. Armstrong writes:
[T]his is basically a continuation of the Bush-Cheney doctrine of endorsing unilateral pre-emptive military attacks abroad, lighter perhaps, but certainly not the mentality that would pull us out of the mideast quagmire.I'm not sure I follow. First, I don't think either "unilateral" or "pre-emptive" is a particularly appropriate adjective here. Obama was suggesting taking out al Qaeda leaders like Zawahiri and Bin Laden, the very people who orchestrated the 9/11 attacks. That's responsive, not pre-emptive. Second, all surgical strikes are, by their nature, unilateral. You don't create a coalition of countries to fire a cruise missile or authorize a secret special-op mission.
The unilateral nature of our invasion of Iraq was problematic because we lacked sufficient military and monetary commitments from other countries. That left us to foot the bill and bear all the burden. The recklessness and unprovoked nature of the invasion also angered much of the world, harming key alliances and fueling widespread anti-americanism. A surgical strike against al Qaeda bases in Waziristan would be relatively cheap. And it's not at all clear to me that such a attack, particularly one authorized by a President Obama, would create any real international backlash. People understand why we want to take out Bin Laden.
Moreover, does Armstrong really want a foreign policy that doesn't prioritize disrupting al Qaeda? I'm all for a less interventionist, less bellicose policy toward the Middle East, but if there's one thing we should be doing, it's going after the organization that attacked us. Though I hate to admit it, I agree with Joe Klein:
[O]n Pakistan, what Obama is proposing is the precise opposite of what Bush has done. It is clear that not only is General Musharraf incapable of controlling his tribal areas, but also that there are elements of the Pakistani military and intelligence services that are actively Salafist and support the jihadis, quite possibly including the Al Qaeda leadership. Bush has chosen to do nothing about this. Which is remarkable: here's the group most successful at attacking the U.S. homeland, that has rebuilt its infrastructure (according to the national intelligence estimate), the group that Bush had vowed to make "war" upon--and we are allowing it to fester, perhaps even to plan more attacks on our citizens?Of course we have to be very careful with any such policy. Pakistan has nuclear weapons, after all. But the tribal regions in the North are not even under the control of the Pakistani government. So the real concern is not, as right wing bloggers would have you believe, that Pakistan will consider this an act of war and start launching nukes. The concern is that our actions will weaken Musharraf and someone scarier will seize power. But Obama certainly knows this and would have competent advisers helping him weigh the risks. He wasn't promising to carry out such an attack regardless of the circumstances.
If there was ever a vital national security interest of the United States, this is it. Indeed, the Iraq war was a criminally foolish diversion from this mission.
All in all, though, I don't see what is reckless or unserious about making it clear that we cannot tolerate the very same people who attacked us on 9/11 being allowed to regroup, rebuild, and plot against us in safety. But that's what's happening right now in the hinterlands of Pakistan. Something's got to be done about that.



18 Comments:
Occasional special ops and cruise missiles against bases in Pakistan seem reasonable. A full-scale invasion has quagmire written all over it.
The unacknowledged, and thus unaddressed, conundrum we've faced since '03 is what to do about countries whose central government is ostensibly friendly, yet those countries harbor significant threats in the form of individuals, families, tribes and organizations that hate the U.S. That hatred results in segments of their societies providing fighters, suicide attackers, money, arms and propaganda to be used against our country and our forces.
Obama offers a rational, fully justifiable response in one especially critical instance of this. I wish he had put forth a doctrine for dealing with the larger problem, as it exists in Saudi Arabia as well.
We won't make significant inroads against international Muslim terrorism until this problem is appreciated for what it is and dealt with openly and effectively.
Obviously, no one should look to neocon Republicans for a coherent response. They're too busy covering the worthless asses of Bush and his band of latter-day crackpot crusaders.
It's disappointing to read this level of Obama ass kissing from someone that claims "Liberal" as part of their persona. Everything about this Obama speech reeks of the phony conservative "tell it like it is" ideology America has been bombarded with for the last 30 plus years.
This is the 'cruise missile up a camel's ass' speech. We aren't being tough enough. Recognize that. More than that recognize the phony bullshit "24" rhetoric of the speech. It's the justification for the shredding of the constitution that the Bush group has been using (and continues to use - see the current calls for FISA changes) to make an imperial Republican presidency.
Obama is giving us the "24"esque need to react to those that "killed 3000 Americans." That situation just doesn't happen in the real world. There's never a time when you've got a ticking nuke in mid-town Manhattan and the guy that knows how to disarm it is in your office tied to a chair. That just doesn't happen. None of the certainty of that situation ever exists. You're more likely to get struck by lightning while holding the ticket of the 200 million dollar lottery you just won. Cruise missile - camel's ass talk. Rove talk. Cheney talk. Obama talk.
Bin Laden is as smart at reading the press and media as Rove. Smarter. Bin Laden is still doing his dirty work while Rove's stock is trash (unless he's secretly signed up with Obama). You can never be certain that you've got a "clear shot" at major Al Qaeda operatives. Haven't we learned that? If there's any sense that America will take that "shot" Bin Laden will use that knowledge to wreak more havoc. He'll leak "secret" information that he and his top operatives will be meeting at location "X" at time "Y" but instead there'll be a big school reception happening there and then. Obama's cruise missile up a camel's ass will kill dozens of school children (and you know they'll be called school children if they're within a mile of a school and under 45). If no attack is made Bin Laden will leak information that his Al Qaeda meeting was knowingly ignored.
Maybe this rhetoric would have had some meaning before Bush and Cheney's Iraq war, but if you've bothered to read the recent comments by one "Maryam," someone who has lived Republican Iraq style freedom spreading, you'll know that the Muslim world hates America and Americans. A blood lust hatred and a well justified blood lust hatred. We've killed ten of thousands of their children and killed tens of thousands of their innocent adults. A 'well targeted cruise missile' is a fantasy in any reality, but in this reality it's insanity. The reality, that you gloss over in a back handed paragraph, is that a nuclear power with millions and millions of already radical Muslims will explode with anti-American hatred and violence if there should be an attack on them that kills their own. Even with a kill of Osama Bin Laden. Musharraf will be done and a full out war with Pakistan would be likely. A war, incidentally, that America at this point could not fight without using its most devastating and lethal weapons. Can we anticipate an Obama draft?
Reality, not "24". Thanks Barack Obama. And thanks "Anonymous Liberal" for the facist back patting.
Obama has recently been going after teachers, civil rights activitists and even Social Security. Can we stop thinking of this guy as a Democrat?
AL, I am truly surprised by your post. The idea that Pakistan wouldn't really mind being the recipient of yet another illegal invasion by the US because the tribal lands aren't really under national control is just not realistic. How can one say that he believes in the Rule of Law, and yet support invasion of soveriegn nations.
Secondly, an invasion of Pakistan would further inflame not only Pakistanis, but the Middle East as a whole. Yet another recruiting poster.
This is get-tough sabre rattling by Obama of the worst sort. We have got to stop viewing military action as some sort of cure-all for every damn international problem we have. It is exactly the opposite.
There are ways to bring pressure on Pakistan without outright invasion. Amos Anan is right.
See AL this is what happens when you even suggest using force ANYWHERE in the world. The lefties can't stand it. The absurd reaction of Amon Anan and Casual Observer to your post is just far too typical of liberals these days. I mean Amos called you a facist! Time to pack things up and move out of the liberal camp.
Amos and Casual Observer,
First, let me be clear I don't favor invading Pakistan, and neither does Obama. There's a HUGE difference between carrying out an brief operation in Waziristan and invading/occupying Pakistan.
And I think with the right mix pressure and diplomacy, we could probably get Musharaff to tacitly acquiesce to such a move. It's at least worth trying hard to do that.
Third, while we have to take seriously the risk of destabilizing Musharaff's already tenuous hold on power, from what I've read, it is very unlikely that the control of Pakistan would fall into the hands of Islamist radicals. Musharaffs main rivals are not al Qaeda types.
Fourth, it is unquestionably in America's interest to go after al Qaeda proper. There's nearly universal agreement now that, had we known 9/11 was on the horizon, we would have done a lot more to disrupt al Qaeda's safe haven in Afghanistan. That's why we invaded Afghanistan after 9/11, a move that the vast majority of the world supported. Now al Qaeda has a safe haven in Northern Pakistan and is regrouping and reconstituting itself. We can't repeat our mistakes.
Not every military action is guaranteed to do more harm than good. I fully agree that our strategy for fighting terrorism needs to rely a lot less on military action, which has generally been counterproductive. But there are some things that can only be done militarily. And one of those things is physically taking out al Qaeda training camps.
AL,
I don't think anyone disagrees that it is in our interest to get al Qeada. "Al Qaeda Core", as some admin salespeople call it.
My take is that the reason al qaeda is gathering strength and capability is because they have landed within a population that is very supportive of them. A population which has enough power to hold Musharraf at bay. As that population begins taking casualties from "surgical" strikes and quick hits by american military, their bonds to al Qaeda become stronger.
We have seen time and time again that you cannot militarily beat an opponent that can swim through the native population like fish through a pond--Mao's metaphor I believe. All we would do is further harden the tribal entities against us, and play into al Qaeda's hands--AGAIN.
People like Anonymous (above) demand simple answers. They would likely be quite happy under Sharia Law. Sorry. Not in this country. Not yet.
How do they describe the person who repeats an unsuccessful measure over and over, expecting different results each time.
Casual observer,
Since I am apparently a simpleton content to live under Sharia Law, maybe you can explain to me what non-simple "complicated" answer you propose for defeating the rest of al Qaeda. You criticize Obama's position, AL's position, and the administration's position -- but you offer no alternative.
Also, while you are at it, what do you mean in your first post by your claim that Obama is supporting another "illegal invasion." What law would he be breaking? And do you suggest that invading ANY sovereign nation under any circumstances violates your capitalized "Rule of Law"?
Anon,
Good question. Why do you think George HW Bush said this to a joint session of congress in 1990, after Iraq invaded Kuwait?
"The Security Council has imposed mandatory economic sanctions on Iraq, designed to force Iraq to relinquish the spoils of its illegal conquest."
Why did Bush say Iraq's invasion of Kuwait was "illegal? Where was he getting that from?
CO,
I don't understand the point of your response. I am not some sort of all-GOP defender and I have no idea why Bush 41 referred to that invasion as illegal, except perhaps to grandstand. As there is no law governing such matters both you and Bush 41 are wrong. An invasion can be neither legal nor illegal. Can you prove otherwise?
Anon,
I'll give you two choices.
First one is: you can do your own damn due dilligence, go to google, and answer your own questions regarding international and US laws regarding war.
Second choice, pay me 50 bucks an hour plus expenses and I'll do it for you.
Prove you wrong? Kiss my ass & Live in ignorance.
CO,
No need. There are no US laws regarding illegal wars and there are no applicable "international" laws.
So you can keep going your merry way talking about your special, magical, immaginary laws defining which wars are legal and which are not, while the rest of us in the reality-based community can get on with our lives.
Also, you never came back with your alternate plan for defeating al Qaeda in Pakistan. But I'll just let that one slide. Not an important issues or anything.
Best,
Anon
Well I'll be, Thanks AL! I was arguing these very same points (and running into the very same straw-arguments by some of the very same people) over at Greenwald's comments section (we are in withdrawal while he's at YKOS). It's good to see someone with some credentials support the same arguments I was making. The biggest one, that this will somehow become a full scale invasion, a "third front" as some YouTuber put it, is completely manufactured and misrepresentative of Obama's proposals. In any case, Good Lookin Out.
ktw,
straw? what straw. I don't see any straw.
Amos Anon, among others things, wrote:
". . . if you've bothered to read the recent comments by one "Maryam," someone who has lived Republican Iraq style freedom spreading, you'll know that the Muslim world hates America and Americans. A blood lust hatred and a well justified blood lust hatred."
Thanks, Amos, for revealing where your sympathies and allegiance lie.
You've jumped to so many conclusions about what Obama said, you must need a new pogo stick.
For starters, he did not indicate a willingness to undertake a wholesale invasion of Pakistan. Depending on the type and quality of intelligence involved, there are several ways of going about an attack, probably a so-called surgical strike, in the ungoverned tribal areas of NW Pakistan.
Or, if it's simply determined OBL and/or his brothers in blood-lust hatred are in a certain remote, sparsely populated valley, we could just level the surrounding mountains, filling in the valley.
Your wholesale indictment concerning Iraqis killed in this unnecessary war/occupation goes too far. Iraqis had a golden opportunity in 2003-2004 to help get their country back on its feet, benefit from extremely generous U.S. aid, and see the U.S. military presence drawn way down as Iraqis took over civilian leadership and military duties.
Instead, Iraqis concentrated on looting and rioting, on a free for all of violence and crime, and on doing little or nothing to help the occupying forces establish and maintain peace and order. This played into the hands of insurgents perfectly.
Yes, far too many Iraqis have been killed in this terrible quagmire situation. But it's truly incredible how many of those deaths are attributable to their fellow Iraqis, directly and indirectly.
s.w. translation:
"It's the victim's fault"
casual observer, being alive involves a daily challenge to do the best one can with the situation every day presents.
Post invasion, Iraqis generally took that to mean all sorts of illegal, immoral and uncivilized things. Furthermore, for a variety of reasons too many kept their mouths shut when they could've helped put a stop to the violence that was killing them way out of proportion to the killing of foreign troops in their midst.
Evidently, their blood-lust hatred, not just of foreign troops, but of Sunni against Shiite and Shiite against Sunni, comes at a high and painful price, yet one they're willing to pay.
To an amazing extent they are victims of their own ignorance, backwardness and hatefulness. To that extent, I do indeed blame them, and they richly deserve that blame.
FYI:
belligerency , in international law, status of parties legally at war. Belligerency exists in a war between nations or in a civil war if the established government treats the insurgent force as if it were a sovereign power. The rules of international law as formulated at the Hague Conferences require that belligerency between states be preceded by an absolute declaration of war or an ultimatum prescribing the terms on which the issuing power will refrain from war. When belligerency has been established, the relations between the warring powers are determined by the laws of war (see war, laws of ). In civil wars if the insurgent force is granted belligerency rights, neutral nations generally abstain from supplying or helping either the established government or its opponent. An example of this practice is found in the neutrality proclamations issued by European powers in the American Civil War. Neutral nations may refuse to recognize the belligerency of an insurgent, however, and in this way preserve the right to claim any damages that accrue against the established government for having failed to suppress the rebellion without delay. Under its charter, the United Nations recognizes as legitimate only wars that are fought in self-defense, or for the collective enforcement of the UN Charter. All other wars are regarded as illegal acts of aggression. The United Nations also considers civil wars as threatening to international peace, and, when possible, takes measures to end such hostilities (e.g., Kashmir, Palestine, Korea, the Congo, Cyprus).
Bibliography: See W. L. Gould, An Introduction to International Law (1957).
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