Follow the Perjury
The other day Marty Lederman lamented:
Nothing happens unless you create leverage and use it to pry the truth out. Gonzales' lies may pale in significance to the underlying conduct at issue here, but they are also something concrete, something that can be seized upon to put pressure on the White House. We're never going to get to the underlying truth unless we have some means of forcing the issue.
This is also why I favor pursuing impeachment against Gonzales. Others have suggested that Democrats seek the appointment of a special prosecutor. I disagree. Special prosecutors operate under strict secrecy rules, work very slowly, and limit their focus to blatant criminal misconduct. They are also significantly hampered by classification issues, particularly at the prosecution stage.
Because impeachment proceedings are just about removing officials from office, not imprisoning them, they are not limited by the same strict standards. It is a faster, more public process. And I doubt it would even need to proceed to a Senate trial. If a bill of impeachment passed the House, Gonzales would almost surely resign. The White House would demand it, not wanting a Senate trial to dominate headlines for weeks.
The removal of Gonzales would have all sorts of collateral benefits as well. It would improve morale at the DOJ overnight and allow the rebuilding process to begin. And whomever Bush appoints as his successor would have to be capable of winning Senate confirmation. Anyone capable of doing that would, by definition, be a vast improvement over Gonzales. And the Senate could use the confirmation hearings to explore various key issues and to extract a number of important promises from the new Attorney General regarding the NSA program, hiring practices at the DOJ, the executive privilege fight, etc.
Long story short, I think it's important to try to make the case that Gonzales' lied to Congress and then use that case as leverage to expose the truth, and hopefullly, expel Gonzales from office.
On an tangential note, I have a new post up over at Crooks & Liars about Bush's recent statements about FISA.
Unfortunately, most of the reaction to the Times story is about the question of whether it helps or hurts the allegations that the Attorney General lied to Congress. Folks, really, that's a sideshow. . . .Glenn Greenwald seconded this sentiment:
. . . in my view, whether the deceptions and prevarications and dissembling add up to perjury or not is really neither here nor there. It wasn't about perjury with Clinton, and it's not now. There was a serious cover-up here, but it largely occurred before the Times broke the NSA story in 2005. Since that time, the scandal is not that any particular Administration witness wrongly reassured any member of Congress about anything -- it's not as if anyone listened to Gonzales's testimony and then said, "well, then, ok, never mind about that NSA thing" -- but instead that the Administration (and those in Congress aware of the details of the NSA program) have continued to hide the details of the program, and the legal justifications during the lifespan of the program, from Congress as a whole and (with the exception of some technical details that should remain classified) from the public, as well. The focus now, in other words, should be on the substance of the NSA and FBI conduct, on DOJ's justifications therefore, and on the breakdown in the separation of powers -- and not the parsing of the Attorney General's testimony, which has never been useful for anyone in Congress anyway.
The NSA scandal is not now and never has been about perjury. It is about highly illegal spying activities by our government on American citizens.I agree with Glenn and Marty about most things, but I disagree about this. As Brian Beutler points out:
The scandal arose because the Bush administration spied on Americans illegally for many years and concealed its criminality. It did so (a) by eavesdropping on the telephone calls of Americans without warrants even though FISA makes it a felony to do that, and (b) by engaging in the even-worse though still unknown spying activities which caused Ashcroft, Comey, Mueller et al. to threaten to quit if it did not cease.
This is where the focus should be, and my concern from the start about the Gonzales perjury focus is that it would overshadow that far more important issue. We cannot spend the next 18 months in a mind-numbing semantic debate over what the "TSP" means or does not mean in the administration's misleading testimony and public statements. That is far afield from the real criminality here and it will obscure it.
This is fairly odd reasoning for a few reasons, I think. There are a number of good reasons to go after Gonzales for perjury, not least of which is that that's perhaps the only ways we'll ever learn exactly what the NSA and DOJ were up to.That seems right to me. The focus on Gonzales' perjury has already paid dividends by forcing the Bush Administration to leak additional important facts about the NSA program to various news outlets in an effort to defend Gonzales. This is how scandals unravel. You find a thread and you pull it. That's what happened in Watergate.
Nothing happens unless you create leverage and use it to pry the truth out. Gonzales' lies may pale in significance to the underlying conduct at issue here, but they are also something concrete, something that can be seized upon to put pressure on the White House. We're never going to get to the underlying truth unless we have some means of forcing the issue.
This is also why I favor pursuing impeachment against Gonzales. Others have suggested that Democrats seek the appointment of a special prosecutor. I disagree. Special prosecutors operate under strict secrecy rules, work very slowly, and limit their focus to blatant criminal misconduct. They are also significantly hampered by classification issues, particularly at the prosecution stage.
Because impeachment proceedings are just about removing officials from office, not imprisoning them, they are not limited by the same strict standards. It is a faster, more public process. And I doubt it would even need to proceed to a Senate trial. If a bill of impeachment passed the House, Gonzales would almost surely resign. The White House would demand it, not wanting a Senate trial to dominate headlines for weeks.
The removal of Gonzales would have all sorts of collateral benefits as well. It would improve morale at the DOJ overnight and allow the rebuilding process to begin. And whomever Bush appoints as his successor would have to be capable of winning Senate confirmation. Anyone capable of doing that would, by definition, be a vast improvement over Gonzales. And the Senate could use the confirmation hearings to explore various key issues and to extract a number of important promises from the new Attorney General regarding the NSA program, hiring practices at the DOJ, the executive privilege fight, etc.
Long story short, I think it's important to try to make the case that Gonzales' lied to Congress and then use that case as leverage to expose the truth, and hopefullly, expel Gonzales from office.
On an tangential note, I have a new post up over at Crooks & Liars about Bush's recent statements about FISA.



13 Comments:
This is also why I favor pursuing impeachment against Gonzales. Others have suggested that Democrats seek the appointment of a special prosecutor. I disagree. Special prosecutors operate under strict secrecy rules, work very slowly, and limit their focus to blatant criminal misconduct. They are also significantly hampered by classification issues, particularly at the prosecution stage.
Troubling - you disagree with Greenwald and agree with me.
As to impeachment, do you think the Hosue Dems will actually put up (or shut up)?
The benefit to Dems of the special counsel route is the secrecy and delay you note (string this out to Nov '08!), as well as putting a resolution out of their hands and beyond their responsibility (when in doubt, punt.).
Tom Maguire
I think your strategy is the way to go. Follow Gonzales wherever it leads, especially if the White House is doing panic-stricken things to prop him up. I believe the leak-farce was a mistake on their part. Maybe they'll continue to make revealing mistakes.
Personally don't see DOJ 'healing' just with the removal of Abu. It will take a new president to do that. But I do see the AG as the best line of attack for learning more about domestic surveillance.
A.L. said:
"And I doubt it would even need to proceed to a Senate trial. If a bill of impeachment passed the House, Gonzales would almost surely resign. The White House would demand it, not wanting a Senate trial to dominate headlines for weeks."
While I agree with A.L. on most of this post, I strongly, strongly disagree with the sentiment he expressed here (and has also been expressed by mcjoan at DailyKos).
GONZALES AIN'T RESIGNING. EVER.
You have to look at this from President Bush's perspective. I accept as given that his primary motivation is to get out of office in 2009 without being held accountable for the mistakes and messes he's made. Feel free to disagree, but that is my underlying assumption.
Given that, Bush simply cannot have Gonzales resign. There is too much that Gonzales is holding back (by being the top law enforcement officer). His obstruction of investigations has proved far too useful, and Bush will not give him up willingly.
If Congress ends up impeaching Gonzales, and if by some chance the Senate convicts, then in Bush's mind he's no worse off than if he asked Gonzales to resign.
Gonzales must stay, therefore Gonzales cannot resign. Ever.
A.L.,
A special counsel and impeachment of Gonzales are not mutually exclusive. Prior high-level impeachment proceedings (Nixon and Clinton) have pursued both tracks. I am inclined to think that both options should be pursued. If Paul Clement refuses to name a special counsel -- or if Bush orders him not to -- then the case for an impeachment proceeding becomes that much more compelling.
I also agree that exposing and prosecuting the underlying illegal acts, such as violatons of FISA, are the most serious objective, and that prosecuting Gonzales' dissembling in either forum can be a means to that end. Maybe successfully, maybe not.
I repeatedly have argued that a special counsel's mandate should also include investigation of such underlying illegality. But I also repeatedly have lamented that few join me in that argument. Schumer, Feingold, Feinstein and Whitehouse have been unwilling to make such a demand.
As for impeachment of Gonzales as a route to exposing the underlying bad deeds, I am not persuaded that the Democratic congressional establishment would favor that course. It is not necessarily in their political interest to go there, and they are deeply conflicted.
Note that Gonzales defended himself last week by further ratting out the Gang of Eight. (Nancy Pelosi has been in the loop of the briefings on the whole program from the beginning.) Whatever the complete truth is there -- the structure of the briefings hamstrung the Gang, apparently there was some dissent, etc. -- it is a huge political embarrassment for these players.
JaO,
I don't disagree with anything you say. Though it's at least worth pointing out that the existence of a special counsel investigation would serve as a further excuse for knowledgable people (including former administration officials like Jack Goldsmith) to refuse to talk about anything relevant.
I agree that the House is not likely to pursue impeachment of Gonzales, but I think they are being overly cautious in this regard.
A.L. - I agree. Perjury is the leverage. Keeping the pressure on will continue to yield results.
As has been much discussed the purpose of Administration's data-mining "leak" to the NYT is to give credence to Gonzales testimony that it was a different "program" than the TSP to escape the perjury rap. Of course everyone suspects this is bull. So, let's continue to pursue if there were really two programs or just one!
In reviewing some of the answers by Comey to Shumer's questions concerning his May testimony I think there is a clue and a good line of questioning to pursue.
Here's the testimony:
***************
You testified that during the visit to Attorney General Ashcroft’s hospital room on the evening of March 10, 2004, Mrs. Ashcroft was present when you first arrived and also later when Messrs. Gonzales and Card arrived.
Did you reveal classified information in Mrs. Ashcroft’s presence?
>>No.
Did either Mr. Gonzales or Mr. Card reveal classified information in Mrs. Ashcroft’s presence?
>>Mr. Card did not. I do not recall whether Mr. Gonzales mentioned any aspects of the matter that would be considered classified, including the name of the program – which was itself classified, as I recall – when addressing Mr. Ashcroft.
**************
So, there was a classified "name of the program."
Did that program of that classified name include both the data mining and eavsdropping activities?
I bet it did.
Mediafreeze,
That's interesting. I wonder what the name was?
A.L. Something very spooky, you can be sure...
Obviously, in many ways, Shrub & co. are trying to run out the clock on this presidency, but I wonder if there are other clocks they are trying to beat, as well. Regarding the underlying crimes of illegal wiretapping, etc.--and what a lot of nastiness may be included in that "etc!"--is there a statute of limitations on those acts? Could that help explain the stalling?
Or do we think they are relying on end-of-term pardons? (Can the president pardon himself?)
agree, impeachment is the only thing that will create leverage, and apparently, the only thing that has any leverage that they can use on other GOP types. It will force them to vote for or against law and order, lie v. truth, good and evil. In the eyes of the people, this is not going to be something they can weasel out on. If they vote for someone protecting a liar, they vacate their position next election, presuming of course that there is a "next" election.
"Because impeachment proceedings are just about removing officials from office, not imprisoning them, they are not limited by the same strict standards. It is a faster, more public process. And I doubt it would even need to proceed to a Senate trial. If a bill of impeachment passed the House, Gonzales would almost surely resign."
Even if Gonzales were to resign in such a scenario the Senate should still take it to trial for four reasons:
1) There is precedent for impeachment after someone is out of office.
2) It allows us to pull the thread and see what unravels.
3) It prevents the scumbag from ever holding office again.
4) It creates far more accountability. Letting Nixon off in 1974 was a major contributor to the problems we face now.
Why couldn't Bush accept Gonzales' resignation this Friday and then recess appoint a new Bush friendly replacement, thus avoiding the Senate confirmation problem?
Explain this to me - why hasn't a complaint or a grievance been filed with the Texas Bar about Gonzales? Certainly there is ample evidence that he has violated the Texas Bar's rules for attorney conduct? You read in the bar bulletin all the time what lawyers get in trouble for - and Gonzales is way, way over those lines...
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