Ann Coulter's "Borat" Moment
(updated below)
Sometimes I think that Ann Coulter can't possibly be for real. Part of me expects her to rip her wig off and reveal that she's really just another Sasha Baren Cohen character, a crazier, less-endearing version of Borat.
Like Borat, she has a knack for getting people to betray their prejudices. As you've surely heard by now, Coulter said the following in her speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) today:
To drive this point home, just substitute Obama for Edwards and the n-word for "faggot." If Coulter had said that, and the crowd had reacted the way it did to the Edwards comment, would anyone question that the audience was populated by bigots? Of course not. Now explain to me how the Edwards comment is distinguishable from my hypothetical Obama comment in any meaningful sense.
This goes well beyond simply using a politically incorrect term. Coulter intentionally and gratuitously used a hateful slur to describe a major Democratic presidential candidate at a major Republican event. . . and the crowd laughed. In any sane universe, that would be a really big deal and an enormous embarrassment to the Republican party.
Don't tell that to the folks at the Hotline, though. After quoting the Human Rights Campaign's denouncement of Coulter's remark, they write:
Moreover, as the editors of the Hotline well know, if something like this had happened at a major Democratic event, every single conservative politician, pundit, and blogger would be apoplectic and would demand that everyone even remotely associated with the event disavow the remarks and refuse to ever be seen in public again with the person who made them. The person who made the comments would then become an instant pariah, unwelcome at any respectable events and certainly never allowed anywhere near a television camera.
But Ann Coulter's invitation never seems to get lost in the mail. She's not only welcomed on to the same stage as the Republican presidential candidates, she's used in the promotional material for the event. Conference goers line up around the block for her autograph. And not only is she not a pariah, she manages to find her way onto the cover of TIME Magazine and is routinely invited into the studios of every major news network.
Yes, how entirely unreasonable for Democrats to demand that Republicans disavow a vile slur made in their presence. How terribly unfair to ask Mitt Romney to distance himself from disgusting comments made by a person he introduced at a major Republican event. Oh the injustice of it all.
Coulter is, without question, a vile festering sore on the face of our political discourse. But, in one sense, she serves a valuable purpose. What's remarkable is not that she strays so often from the bounds of sanity and decency. It's that whenever she does so, legions of conservatives follow her into the abyss. They buy her books and line up for autographs. They cackle at her bigoted remarks and nod their heads in agreement as she spreads her hate-filled delusions. And the more outrageous she gets, the more books she sells and more invitations come her way. In a very real sense, her outlandishness helps illuminate what much of the modern Republican party has become. And it isn't pretty. Like Borat, Coulter has a way of getting those around her to reveal some of the not so flattering aspects of their character and belief system. If only she were funny, it might actually be entertaining to watch.
UPDATE: I should point out that, with only a few exceptions, most right wing bloggers who have commented on Coulter's slur have been quick to denounce it (see memeorandum for a sampling). Good for them. The problem, however, is that Coulter continues to be treated as a mainstream figure. Republicans and conservatives who associate with her continue to pay no political price for doing so. That's where the double-standard lies. Coulter is not just a right-wing version of Michael Moore. That's a lazy comparison. There is no left-wing figure who is remotely comparable to Coulter in terms of vileness, notoriety, and general acceptance in respectable circles and the media.
Sometimes I think that Ann Coulter can't possibly be for real. Part of me expects her to rip her wig off and reveal that she's really just another Sasha Baren Cohen character, a crazier, less-endearing version of Borat.
Like Borat, she has a knack for getting people to betray their prejudices. As you've surely heard by now, Coulter said the following in her speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC) today:
“I was going to have a few comments on the other Democratic presidential candidate John Edwards, but it turns out you have to go into rehab if you use the word ‘faggot,’ so I — so kind of an impasse, can’t really talk about Edwards.”Think Progress has the video. More revealing than the comment itself--which is sadly typical of Coulter--is the way the crowd at CPAC reacted to the slur. As you can hear on the video, there's an initial "oooh" followed by boisterous laughing and applause. It's pretty hard to interpret that reaction as anything other than a confirmation that much of the crowd harbors some very real anti-gay prejudice.
To drive this point home, just substitute Obama for Edwards and the n-word for "faggot." If Coulter had said that, and the crowd had reacted the way it did to the Edwards comment, would anyone question that the audience was populated by bigots? Of course not. Now explain to me how the Edwards comment is distinguishable from my hypothetical Obama comment in any meaningful sense.
This goes well beyond simply using a politically incorrect term. Coulter intentionally and gratuitously used a hateful slur to describe a major Democratic presidential candidate at a major Republican event. . . and the crowd laughed. In any sane universe, that would be a really big deal and an enormous embarrassment to the Republican party.
Don't tell that to the folks at the Hotline, though. After quoting the Human Rights Campaign's denouncement of Coulter's remark, they write:
Next, there'll be calls for Republican candidates to disassociate themselves from Coulter's remarks. Unfairly, ex-MA Gov. Mitt Romney faces the biggest burden: he spoke right before Coulter and praised her. . . not knowing what she planned to say.Good grief. First of all, Ann Coulter has NEVER delivered a speech where she didn't say something horribly inappropriate or bigoted. It's her MO. Last year at this same event she referred to Muslims several times as "ragheads." She has accused both Bill and Hillary Clinton of being gay and referred to Al Gore as a "total fag" just a few months ago. This is what she does, and anyone who stands up next to her on a stage (and praises her!) deserves to be tarred by her bile.
Moreover, as the editors of the Hotline well know, if something like this had happened at a major Democratic event, every single conservative politician, pundit, and blogger would be apoplectic and would demand that everyone even remotely associated with the event disavow the remarks and refuse to ever be seen in public again with the person who made them. The person who made the comments would then become an instant pariah, unwelcome at any respectable events and certainly never allowed anywhere near a television camera.
But Ann Coulter's invitation never seems to get lost in the mail. She's not only welcomed on to the same stage as the Republican presidential candidates, she's used in the promotional material for the event. Conference goers line up around the block for her autograph. And not only is she not a pariah, she manages to find her way onto the cover of TIME Magazine and is routinely invited into the studios of every major news network.
Yes, how entirely unreasonable for Democrats to demand that Republicans disavow a vile slur made in their presence. How terribly unfair to ask Mitt Romney to distance himself from disgusting comments made by a person he introduced at a major Republican event. Oh the injustice of it all.
Coulter is, without question, a vile festering sore on the face of our political discourse. But, in one sense, she serves a valuable purpose. What's remarkable is not that she strays so often from the bounds of sanity and decency. It's that whenever she does so, legions of conservatives follow her into the abyss. They buy her books and line up for autographs. They cackle at her bigoted remarks and nod their heads in agreement as she spreads her hate-filled delusions. And the more outrageous she gets, the more books she sells and more invitations come her way. In a very real sense, her outlandishness helps illuminate what much of the modern Republican party has become. And it isn't pretty. Like Borat, Coulter has a way of getting those around her to reveal some of the not so flattering aspects of their character and belief system. If only she were funny, it might actually be entertaining to watch.
UPDATE: I should point out that, with only a few exceptions, most right wing bloggers who have commented on Coulter's slur have been quick to denounce it (see memeorandum for a sampling). Good for them. The problem, however, is that Coulter continues to be treated as a mainstream figure. Republicans and conservatives who associate with her continue to pay no political price for doing so. That's where the double-standard lies. Coulter is not just a right-wing version of Michael Moore. That's a lazy comparison. There is no left-wing figure who is remotely comparable to Coulter in terms of vileness, notoriety, and general acceptance in respectable circles and the media.



41 Comments:
I heard the video on Think Progress and after Coulter says the word "faggot," the crowd was somewhat shocked and uncomfortable before some finally applauded several seconds later.
When Countdown played the same clip (Olbermann was off, Guest Host was interviewing Dana Milbank), the crowd applauded immediately after Coulter said "faggot." No delay before the applause, no gasps from the crowd.
Simply put, MSNBC altered the clip to favor Coulter.
Simply put, MSNBC altered the clip to favor Coulter.
Or to make the crowd look worse. Either way, weird thing to do. Let the video speak for itself.
"Now explain to me how the Edwards comment is distinguishable from my hypothetical Obama comment in any meaningful sense."
Well..Edwards is not gay and Obama is black. The comment Coulter makes contains a built in 'absurdity' factor that immunizes it from the scrutiny that your hypothetical Obama remark would generate. Why spend any time on this Coulter person? She is just a mouth. That is all. She has never sacrificed a moment or a drop of blood out of patriotism, choosing only to mouth off for money. Why do we continue amplify and push this poor souls outrages with articles like this?
Mostly I agree, but I have one minor quibble. In addition to condemning conservatives for cheering Coulter, you seem to also censor the MAINSTREAM MEDIA for giving her any attention coverage: "And not only is she not a pariah, she manages to find her way onto the cover of TIME Magazine and is routinely invited into the studios of every major news network."
What's wrong with that? She is a bestseller, clearly a force in conservative politics, and a factor (however negative) in American politics. Should the MSM ignore her? Pretend that she doesn't exist? Bad guys need to be covered in the news too.
yep. I would agree the Obama comparison doesn't quite work. Perhaps better to imagine if Janeane Garafolo (sp?) got up on stage and said, "I wanted to talk a bit about the president, but apparently if you use the term 'mongoloid retard' they send you off the rehab."
Moreover, I would tend to agree with those who favor ignoring Coulter, or not ignoring her, but simply seeing her for what she is: a gadfly. The whole business of asking people, or organizations, to distance themselves from untoward remarks - not that that's really what you're doing here - but there's just no good that comes from it. No one from whom an apology is demanded ever really gives one; no one who demands an apology ever really accepts one.
To put another way, she wants to be a wedge. By reacting to what she says, or even to wonder at it, we abet her. (I say this as someone who actually once had dinner with her - AND Mickey Kaus -but that is another story). Nor should we be surprised at her remarkable success. Her "genius" consists saying the sorts of things that her following wish they could say if they only had the guts, and at the same time confirming the worst suspicions/prejudices of the liberals who come within earshot of her. That is, in an awful way, she makes everyone feel better about themselves, and more confirmed in their prejudices.
What's wrong with that? She is a bestseller, clearly a force in conservative politics, and a factor (however negative) in American politics. Should the MSM ignore her? Pretend that she doesn't exist? Bad guys need to be covered in the news too.
I don't think she should be ignored. But I think she should be treated as the complete wackjob she is, not given glowing profiles in TIME Magazine or treated as if she is somehow mainstream. I think that in a sane universe her high profile would cause political headaches for those with whom she associates.
Well..Edwards is not gay and Obama is black. The comment Coulter makes contains a built in 'absurdity' factor that immunizes it from the scrutiny that your hypothetical Obama remark would generate.
Good point, but I have to quibble. Homosexuality is not like race in the sense that there is no obvious physical indicator of your sexual orientation. "Faggot," therefore, is a powerful derogatory term even for straight people. It marginalizes them. You can't "rebut" it. There are countless examples of gay people who have led closeted lives as married men. And so it doesn't have the absurdity factor that would come with calling, say, Hillary Clinton the n-word.
BRX, sounds like an intersting story. Dinner with Coulter and Kaus. Feel free to share anecdotes. :)
To put another way, she wants to be a wedge. By reacting to what she says, or even to wonder at it, we abet her.
I agree that she wants attention, but I don't think it's wise to just ignore her. This is one of Bob Somerby's pet issues, and I completely agree with him.
But she is mainstream. May be unfortunate, but its true. She is extremely popular -- as evidenced by the booksales and demand for her as a speaker.
It sucks, but there are similar types on the left, like Michael Moore -- another popular bestseller and subject of fawning MSM profiles.
It sucks, but there are similar types on the left, like Michael Moore -- another popular bestseller and subject of fawning MSM profiles.
I'm very very tired of this comparison. It's not at all accurate. Look, I am not at all a fan of Michael Moore, but please. I'm going to quote another blogger who put this well:
How many ways is this a completely bogus comparison?
Let's count: Michael Moore hasn't called George HW Bush a "good rapist" or suggested we should be talking about assassinating him, Michael Moore hasn't called John McCain a "faggot," Michael Moore hasn't called gold star mothers "harpies," Michael Moore hasn't called half the population of the United States traitors, or suggested that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg are American heroes.
Oh -- and most importantly, Michael Moore is not a powerful figure in the Democratic party! He does not give major speeches at major Democratic functions like CPAC. . . .
Moore was a Green in 2000, who campaigned against Gore. When was the last time Coulter campaigned against a Republican?
Never.
Coulter isn't a conservative, any more than Hannity is. She's an institutional Republican partisan. Moore is hardly a Democratic partisan, and he's got no real connections with the Democratic party. He's just found the Democrats more tolerable of late.
there was no real signature moment to the dinner. It was a small affair - six or seven people. I'd been invited by a mutual friend, was told Anne Coulter would be there, and couldn't resist. She and I were actually first to arrive so I did a have a few minutes alone with her, in which she demonstrated that knack which most highly successful people have, of focusing thei attention on you - making you feel like you're the intriguing one. She was gracious. She was also aware of my role for the evening. I would be the 'liberal' at the table. I repeatedly informed her that I didn't necessarily consider myself so liberal, except insofar as I'd come to consider conservatives the new scum of the earth. She laughed.
Moments that stood out. As I say, Kaus was there, so there actually was a brief bout of McCarthy-defending. Three other guest were rank fawners, no other word. She was the basking queen. She made mention of being first in line at her college bookstore (Cornell?) to buy THE BELL CURVE, which actually did impress me - that, say what one will about her act, she had been playing it for a looong time. I spent most of the evening not taking bait, which I think was probably the way to go. Their hatred for Clinton and the NYTimes is certainly pathological. Her recent vacation itinerary stood in risible contrast to her faux populism, but no news there. On the whole, she struck me then as she strikes me now, as being a cunning careerist - not necessarily a cynic. She does believe the things she says, and don't get me wrong, the things she says are often as shallow as they are odious (her take on the BELL CURVE would not have pleased the authors, needless to say). There's surely a part of her that's frustrated that the content of her ideas is not taken MORE seriously. On the other hand, I think she understands that at the end of the day she is a humorist. We may not think it's good stand-up, but that routine at the convention WAS stand-up. Certain of her instincts really are worth noting. (She expressed a kind of sympathy for Howard Dean that might lead one to believe she deep down thought the Dem-faggots had blown it by not giving him more of a chance). Her endorsement of ROmney does matter, in that regard.
But let me close on a poitive and porbably inappropriate note. It's moments like these that bring to mind a site I once happened upon (oh, who knows how?) called...
http://ifuckedanncoulterintheasshard.blogspot.com/
Maybe I'm the crass one, but I kind of do recommend it, if only because it represents what's out there at the further extremes of cultural discourse, so much more vivid and imaginative than mere Cheney-death-wishing.
And maybe the one thing I'd say in Anne Coulter's defense - granting that I could certainly be wrong because what do I know? - but I do believe if she read
http://ifuckedanncoulterintheasshard.blogspot.com/
she wouldn't object. In fact, I suspect she'd get a kick out of it.
If I ever have dinner with her again, maybe I'll ask.
Warning, I am a coservative...I could use a few more liberals over commenting at my blog to shake things up a bit...here is what I wrote about Coulter today:
Two points:
1. Do all Democratic candidates have to denounce every hollywood liberal and every other liberal moron who says the only reason our troops are in the military is because they are stupid, or that our troops are Nazi's (yes, he said it no matter how much kool-aid you want to drink) or that our troops are like Pol Pot, or that GWB is a Nazi and worse that Hitler, or that the only way you'll see black people at a GOP convention is if you look at the wait staff, or, or, or, or...
For every one stupid thing Ann Coulter says, we can find about 75 stupid liberal comments.
2. Why do PC liberals think we have a constitution right to never be offended? I read a story two days ago (can't remember where so I can't link it) where two boys made fun of a Mormon girl in school asking her if she had 18 moms. Her response was, "That's so gay" SHE got in trouble for hate speech, the boys did not get in trouble at all. Certain people seem to be given this special protection against every having to hear anything they don't like. Sorry, I'm here to tell you that you have NO constitution right to be protected against things you don't like.
Do you notice how bold some liberals are getting about this topic lately. Algore said that there should be no reporting on anything that goes against the stupid global warming theories he puts out. Al, sounds like another liberal professing his love for communism. When liberals feel safe in public they let their true communistic feelings out. Let me tell you something, it is the PC liberals who are against the first amendment and against open and honest discussion about anything they don't like.
Was Ann Coulter stupid for saying that...yes. I think her point was my point, that you go to jail for hurting people's feelings nowadays, but why do we have to have a national uproar because she said a WORD. We don't get mad when thousands of illegals come across our boarder to ruin our country. We don't get mad when other countries give weapons to our enemies so they can kill our troops. But we get mad when people say words.
Sounds like quite a night, brx. Thanks for sharing it with us.
The Game,
I think you're conflating very different situations. I'm generally not an advocate of demanding that people denounce things that others have said. But I think this is a little different. Coulter isn't just some random person who said something in some random place. She was a featured speaker at an important conservative event and she spoke at the same stage as the Republican presidential candidates. She was even introduced by one of them. I think it's entirely fair to ask a politician to denounce a vile slur made in their presence by a featured speaker at major event in which they took part.
AL, pretending that people like Al Sharpton and Michael Moore are not on the same level as Coulter just totally wrecks any claim of objectivity.
I despise Sharpton, Moore, Coulter, and Pat Robertson somewhat equally. But one must be blind to think that Moore is less relevant and influence in American politics than Coulter. His stupid books do just as well as hers, plus he makes movies that certainly garner mainstream approval (as in an Academy Award). He certainly has pull amongst liberals and within the party -- he was Carter's guest at the '04 convention and made appearances with candidates (like Wesley Clark). The lefty blogosphere loves him (not all of course, but a lot of the big ones -- Kos, etc.). And his opinions are just as disgusting as Coulter's -- he is the one, after all, who compared the Iraqi insurgents to our historical Minutemen.
I suppose it is normal for liberal/conservative partisans to be certain that the other side's boogeymen are worse, but, come on. Coulter and Moore are clearly on the same level.
Yes, Coulter is a boor. What else is new? So is Ted Turner, but he hasn't been shut out of polite society, yet. But tell you what: When a former U.S. president gives her a seat of honor in his box at the GOP convention, you just let me know, O.K.?
As for the crowd's reaction, I think it's tough to judge that kind of thing because it's difficult to know how to react. I would say the laughter was a comination of embarrassed titters and delight at Coulter's blatant political incorrectness. Shock comedy is not exactly something new, and it's hardly anything the left is unfamiliar with.
Let's count: Michael Moore hasn't called George HW Bush a "good rapist" or suggested we should be talking about assassinating him, Michael Moore hasn't called John McCain a "faggot," Michael Moore hasn't called gold star mothers "harpies," Michael Moore hasn't called half the population of the United States traitors, or suggested that Julius and Ethel Rosenberg are American heroes.
No, Moore just suggested that al Qaeda should have attacked "red America." And he called the al Qaeda terrorists in Iraq "Iraq's Minutemen." And while he didn't call Bush a rapist, he has called him a drunk numerous times. Must I go on?
oy
Anonymous at 12:45,
The point with reference to Michael Moore is not that he and Ann aren't "on the same level" culturally (whatever that might mean). The point is that they're not on the same level with respect to the parties.
Or are you claiming that Cannes Film Festival is the left-wing equivalent of CPAC?
Interesting question, Charles. What would you consider to be the left-wing equivalent of CPAC? I would imagine that such an organization would be pretty accepting/enthusiastic of Mr. Moore.
Lest I be unclear, I generally consider Moore to be a baffoon. But he and Coulter are just not comparable. First, Moore is a complete wild card, not an institutional partisan. He's just as likely to attack Democrats Nader-style than try to help them. Coulter is an instutional partisan, like Sean Hannity, whose entire schtick is devote to proping up the Republican party.
Second, the last time Moore appeared with a Democrat candidate(Wesley Clark), it caused all sorts of problems for Clark. Moore made a remark that was considered offensive (though it was nowhere near Coulter-esque levels) and Clark was forced to disavow it publicy after irate conservatives (and his fellow candidates!) flipped out. That example beautifully illustrates this double-standard.
Finally, while Moore has made a number of offensive statements, he has made nowhere near as many as Coulter and his MO is totally different. Moore is a not-so-bright guy who sincerely believes what he says and tries to expose what he sees as corruption and lies. In doing so, he often says dumb and offensive things.
Coulter is very intelligent. She's a clever liar and provocateur who tries as hard as she can to be offensive and dishonest.
And by the way, how often do you see Michael Moore interviewed on news programs? Coulter is a regular fixture on news shows.
Anonymous at 1:12,
After I read what I wrote, that question occurred to me as well. I have to admit I am not aware of any such organization (not being a left-wing activist). Perhaps someone else could suggest something, and we could see if we believe he'd be enthusiastically accepted there.
Coulter is an instutional [sic] partisan, like Sean Hannity, whose entire schtick [sic] is devote [sic] to propping up the Republican party.
It usually helps to know what you're talking about before opening your mouth. Coulter has spent much of the last six years giving it to Bush and the GOP Congress with both barrels on immigration, Harriet Myers, Social Security reform, and any other issue where she felt they were being squishes. Coulter is an ideologue much more than she is a partisan.
Second, the last time Moore appeared with a Democrat candidate (Wesley Clark), it caused all sorts of problems for Clark.
Yeah, but that didn't stop Moore from getting the royal treatment from Carter at the convention, or being treated like a hero by the many mainstream Dems who showed up at his movie premier.
Moore is a not-so-bright guy who sincerely believes what he says...
And Coulter doesn't believe what she says? Please. Yes, the woman is a gadfly, but she's been at this for a long time, dating back to her days of enraging liberals at Dartmouth. Her tactics suck much of the time, and she certainly exaggerates for effect, but she says what she believes.
And by the way, how often do you see Michael Moore interviewed on news programs?
Well, no. But articulate Ivy League grads with constitutional law degrees, blond hair, and long legs usually make better television guests than creepy blobs of flesh prone to incoherent outbursts of nonsense.
let all this be a lesson, a.l. See how much happier your conservative readers are to be discussing the relative merits of Anne Coulter and Michael Moore, than, say, anything else that has been going on in this country for the last 6 years? Fact is, the American Conservative Movement is right now completely discredited - both by the American public and the tragic unfolding of recent history. The Movement has had its way for seven long years now and the results have been disastrous. EVerybody knows it. That needs to be the standing premise of any post/argument or any liberal, progressive, or remotely common-sensical blog. The only pertinent questions now are about how to clean up all the messes that these CHILDREN have created. Permitting them to latch on to pointless discussions about what Michael Moore did or didn't say and who wants to french kiss him is playing right into their wedge-making hands. Please cease and desist is indulging these jack-asses with discussions that permit them to think/behave as if they're back in the ring again. They are not. The fact that Anne Coulter's position on John Edwards' candidacy is that he is a "faggot" kind of says all that needs to be said. That and the fact that the democratic ticket will be contested for by the likes of Edwards, Obama, Clinton, Richardson, etc. Love them or hate them, they are all adults who will be forced to offer specific solutions to specific problems, faggotry, lesbian-cuntishness, and niggeriness notwithstanding.
To drive this point home, just substitute Obama for Edwards and the n-word for "faggot."
No, the bigger picture is that you can substitute the word "liberal' for "faggot" or the n-word (i'd type it out but I'm respecting your set tone.)
That's the point. Coulter - and the other hate-mongers she runs with - see "liberals" the way white supremacists see "blacks" and "jews"
There's a discussion about this going on at Unclaimed Territory.
Coulter is being denounced because she said "faggot" - not because she demonized gays. The movement campaigned against a US city in '06 - San Fransico - this was dog whislte pollitics for attacking homosexual rights.
Remember, when Malkin's pet blogs "outed" Glenn? "They" (i.e. those that did it) didn't have a problem with homophobia then.
http://letters.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2007/03/02/cpac/view/?show=all
Of course, the article itself should be read
It usually helps to know what you're talking about before opening your mouth. Coulter has spent much of the last six years giving it to Bush and the GOP Congress with both barrels on immigration, Harriet Myers, Social Security reform, and any other issue where she felt they were being squishes. Coulter is an ideologue much more than she is a partisan.
Coulter isn't an ideologue. She's a clown and a performance artist. You're right that she occassionally criticizes Republicans. But she's unshakably partisan when it counts, i.e., when an election is near. She's is personally invested in the success of the Republican party. She would never support some quixotic Naderite campaign from someone on the Right.
Yeah, but that didn't stop Moore from getting the royal treatment from Carter at the convention, or being treated like a hero by the many mainstream Dems who showed up at his movie premier.
I'm not saying there aren't some parallels. I just think they're not comparable figures.
And for the record, I cringe whenever I see big name Dems appear with Moore.
You're right that she occassionally criticizes Republicans
WRONG (sorry for the caps, I wanted the emphasis)
There is only one criticism - only one: those Republicans were being "too liberal". That's the only legitimate criticism that Coulter and movement conservatives tolerate/ That someone isn't conservative enough.
Case in point: When Delay was forced to step down, John Hinderacker at Powerline observed (and this is an exact quote) that the problem with Delay was that he had become "too liberal."
To make my point clearer - you're right, but I'm framing it differently.
Its not about supporting Republicans, its about supporting movement conservatism - the support of Republicans is only a means towards that goal.
But never should it be confused where her loyalty lays. That's why there are so many "RINOs" in the party, according to her.
AL, you're being excessively generous with your commenters. You shouldn't be making the slightest concession on this one.
Which came first, the hateful Ann Coulter or the hateful people who adore her?
She is a symptom of a problem, not the cause. And I'll admit I have no idea what the solution is. Cut off her head and two more will spring up in it's place.
But I do know that we can work to make hate speech cost those who spew it. Hate speech shouldn't be free, and perhaps if it came at a cost those who surround her might rethink their "values".
But I do know that we can work to make hate speech cost those who spew it. Hate speech shouldn't be free, and perhaps if it came at a cost those who surround her might rethink their "values".
I agree completely. So let's all do our part to make sure those Huffpo posters and Bill Maher pay a price for expressing regret that the Vice President of the United States wasn't assassinated the other day. I mean, calling someone a "faggot" is bad, but wishing someone had been killed by terrorists seems just a tad bit worse, no?
Strangely, no one on the left seems to be condemning this. I wonder why?
So let's all do our part to make sure those Huffpo posters and Bill Maher pay a price for expressing regret that the Vice President of the United States wasn't assassinated the other day. I mean, calling someone a "faggot" is bad, but wishing someone had been killed by terrorists seems just a tad bit worse, no?
Strangely, no one on the left seems to be condemning this. I wonder why?
Good grief. Where to begin? First, I guess it's worth asking this: why should anyone have an obligation to condemn random anonymous comments found on the internet? If we set that precedent, then we're all going to spend the rest of our lives condemning things. How absurd. And are random anonymous internet commenters really comparable to a best-selling author and featured speaker at a major party event? Again, a totally absurd comparison.
If it makes you happy, though, I condemn these anonymous commenters.
As for Maher, you might want to familiarize yourself with what he actually said. He didn't express "regret" that Cheney had survived. Not even close. Watch the video.
Secondly, and more relevant to this discussion, Bill Maher is just a comedian on HBO. He doesn't speak at Democratic events with Democratic presidential candidates. He's not used to promote events like CPAC. He has no affiliation at all with anyone in the Democratic party. So why should people have to respond to anything he has to say?
Anonymous,
I condemn those anonymous posters' opinions as well, and I also consider Maher's comment, from what I understand of it, in bad taste. Comedy is such a "there-and-now" phenomenon, it's hard to judge.
Now, Leno's explanation of why the stock market went down, that's funny.
You didn't notice whether those anonymous posts were enthusiastically received by a large number of commenters there, did you? Hint: they weren't, unlike the situation with Coulter at CPAC. I can't contribute any information as to whether Maher's comments were enthusiastically received, as I don't watch his show.
I hope everybody noticed that a commenter on a blog denounced those other commenters, so we can get back to talking about important things.
Well, just so you'll know here's what was said on Maher's show, including the audience's reaction (notice that they laugh and applaud at the mention of the bomb having been "wasted"). Maher's comments were meant as commentary, not as humor:
Maher: What about the people who got onto the Huffington Post – and these weren’t even the bloggers, these were just the comments section – who said they, they expressed regret that the attack on Dick Cheney failed.
Joe Scarborough: Right
Maher: Now…
John Ridley: More than regret.
Maher: Well, what did they say?
Ridley: They said “We wish he would die.” I mean, it was hate language.
Barney Frank: They said the bomb was wasted. (laughter and applause)
Maher: That’s a funny joke. But, seriously, if this isn’t China, shouldn’t you be able to say that? Why did Arianna Huffington, my girlfriend, I love her, but why did she take that off right away?
[snip]
Ridley: It’s one thing to say you hate Dick Cheney, which applies to his politics. It’s another thing to say, “I’m sorry he didn’t die in an explosion." And I think, you know…
Maher: But you should be able to say it. And by the way...
Frank: Excuse me, Bill, but can I ask you a question? Do you decide what the topics are for this show?
Maher: Yeah, I decide the topics, they don’t go there.
Frank: But you exercise control over the show the way that she does over her blog.
Maher: But I have zero doubt that if Dick Cheney was not in power, people wouldn’t be dying needlessly tomorrow. (applause)
Scarborough: If someone on this panel said that they wished that Dick Cheney had been blown up, and you didn’t say…
Frank: I think he did.
Scarborough: Okay. Did you say…
Maher: No, no. I quoted that.
Frank: You don’t believe that?
Maher: I’m just saying if he did die, other people, more people would live. That’s a fact.
In addition to being disgusting, Maher's comments were just stupid (as is usual for him). Cheney being killed would not change U.S. policy one bit. In fact, his being assassinated would likely lead to a new escalation in our military campaign. As for whether or not Maher “speaks for Democrats” or not… All I can say is that his show is a favorite of lefties and his studio audience is more or less a MoveOn convention every week.
Look, I don't normally watch Maher's show, but after hearing there was some controversy over his statement, I watched it. It didn't seem to me like he was "expressing regret" that Cheney didn't die, but merely saying that he didn't think the comments had to be removed. His follow up comment was more convoluted, but I agree with John Cole:
Saying that X would happen if Y had happened is not the same thing as saying Y should have happened or you wished Y had happened. There is no way around that, even when you selectively quote and remove the jocular context from the program.
That said, I agree that Maher's comment doesn't make a whole lot of sense unless you assume that Cheney is the only thing keeping us in Iraq or that he is indespensible to some other policy which affects lives (both of which I find doubtful).
I don't think you can reasonably interpret Maher's comment as anything other than a justification of the position that it's a shame Cheney wasn't killed. Whether Maher actually wishes this himself is open to speculation (although he did not dispute it when Frank told Scarborough that's what he was saying), but he certainly seems to believe this is a legitimate position for reasonable people to take.
The audience's reaction, however - especially to Frank's comment - is pretty clear. At worst, they agree with the Huffpo guys and wish Cheney had died. At best, they think the whole thing is uproariously funny. Either way, it’s pretty vile stuff.
after the fact (of this exchange), I feel obliged to point out (as one who actually watched Maher's show and the whole of the conversation at question): Barney Frank was in no way expressing support of anyone's expressed regret that Cheney hadn't died. When he inserted his comment about the bomb's having been "wasted," he was clearly merely re-using and re-spinning the word "wasted," which had come up earlier in the discussion with regard to the ridiculous Obama/McCain kerfuffle. People laughed because, dare I say, it was funny - a funny comment aimed at pointing up the continued hollowing of all meaning and language in a country which is, by turns, as ignorant and self-righteous as the one we currently live in. It was not - I repeat, not - a comment intended to endorse the murderous impulses of liberals. But don't let me poop the party of those who prefer, on the basis of only glancing understanding of the conversation at issue, to assume the worst of other people's motives and values. Perish the thought. If for some reason it puts a spring in your step to think of Barney Frank as one who secretly wishes for the assassination of Dick Cheney, I'm sure there's nothing I or the truth of the matter could do to stop you. Cluck your tongues away.
brx,
Unknot your panties. No one accused Barney Frank of making such a statement. From the context of the transcript and from what was said about it in these comments, it's pretty clear that Frank was summarizing what the Huffers had been saying in response to Maher's question. No one here (or anywhere else I have seen) has accused Frank of doing what Maher did.
Frank has a pretty good track record of responsibility. When Eason Jordan slanderously accused the U.S. military of intentionally targetting journalists in Iraq, Frank was one of the first guys in the room to denounce the charge and demand proof.
BORING!
I agree with the comment that conservatives are much happier discussing Moore/Coulter comparisons than real facts these days (see also: the flap over Al Gore's personal use of carbon-based fuels).
However, I can't resist adding one contrast that I don't think has been noted, and might need to be fleshed out a bit: my impression is that Moore often had to fight "left-leaning" or mainstream institutions to get where he is today (e.g., negative reactions from NYT, NPR to his early films, NBC cancelling TV Nation despite decent ratings, Disney refusing to distribute Fahrenheit 911), whereas Coulter's career was practically made for her by right-wing media outlets happy to have a crazed but telegenic female commenter during the Clinton-Lewinski days.
That plays well into a point Jonathan Schwartz at "tiny revolution" often makes well: its not the craziness of the comment, it's the resources and institutions behind the crazy person. If Moore is a bit of a "self-made" crazy, that is a significant contrast to a crazy who has been elevated to that position by others.
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