The NIE: A New Talking Point Emerges
The standard GOP response to the suggestion (backed up by the recently leaked NIE) that our invasion of Iraq has made the terrorism problem worse is to deny, deny, deny. We're repeatedly subjected to the insanely stupid argument that because terrorists attacked us before we invaded Iraq, it is simply not possible that our invasion of Iraq could have exacerbated the problem. This "argument" is, of course, utterly unconvincing and easily dispatched.
But I've noticed a new talking point emerging in the last few days. Perhaps the best example is this post by Jonah Goldberg at The Corner. Goldberg writes:
Unfortunately, this new talking point, though superficially more reasonable, is just as weak analytically. The hornet analogy might make some sense if we had only invaded Afghanistan. That was the "nest," so to speak, of the hornets who stung us so badly on 9/11. Had our attempts to eliminate that nest provoked a few additional stings, it would have been relatively easy to dismiss that as the unavoidable consequence of a necessary action.
But there's no getting around the fact that there just weren't any hornets' nests in Iraq. If we're going to stick within the confines of this tired analogy, invading Iraq was like taking a big stick and repeatedly whacking a tree in the general vicinity of a hornet's nest. You don't accomplish anything, but you do stir up the bees.
Goldberg writes:
But these historical comparisons are entirely inapposite. It is one thing to accept a short-term increase in danger in exchange for eventual victory. But where's the light at the end of the tunnel in Iraq? The ostensible purpose of our invasion of Iraq was to reduce the threat of terrorism, at least in the long term. Does anyone still think that's a likely outcome?
Moreover, when we fought Japan and Germany, we had very different goals. We were trying to defeat enemy states. We could be confident that if we toppled those regimes, the violence would cease. But when you are fighting a group of stateless jihadists, the only way to make progress is to reduce the number of jihadists. If your strategy results in a net increase in the number of jihadists, it is, almost by definition, a bad strategy.
Sooner or later, the defenders of the Iraq invasion are going to have to face this reality honestly. A losing strategy can only be spun for so long.
UPDATE: Here's the relevant passage from the newly declassified "Key Judgments" section of the NIE:
But I've noticed a new talking point emerging in the last few days. Perhaps the best example is this post by Jonah Goldberg at The Corner. Goldberg writes:
Folks, regardless of the details of the NIE controversy can I just say that I'm not particularly troubled by the NIE's alleged finding that the Iraq war has increased terrorism. I mean, doesn't that make sense? I think Bush is mistaken to dismiss this criticism as factually absurd when in reality the absurdity lay in some folks' interpretation of the facts. He said in his August 21, press conference that the notion the Iraq war stirred up a "hornet's nest" "just doesn't hold water as far as I'm concerned." He added, "The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East."This is clearly a much more effective rhetorical response to the NIE than the reflexive reality-denying that we've seen so far from defenders of the Iraq War. Just compare Goldberg's post to Robert Kagan's op-ed in the Post this morning. While Kagan is clearly going to elaborate lengths to avoid the obvious, Goldberg acknowledges the difficultly of the struggle and tells us that the going always gets tough before it gets better. Of course the Iraq war has created a temporary uptick in the terrorism threat, he argues; what battle worth fighting wouldn't have such an consequence?
That's all fair enough. But, why shouldn't we think that the Iraq war has increased terrorism in the world, or at least the risk of it? The hornet's nest analogy is apt, albeit cliched. We were stung--and stung badly--well before the Iraq war. And after the multiple stings of 9/11 we decided to take the fight to nests.
If my backyard is festooned with hornet nests, I will likely be safer from a sting on any given day if I do nothing than I will be on the day or days I begin destroying them. Since when is any large, important, task required to show positive results at every stage? Declaring war on Japan increased the threat of war from Germany dramatically. And waging war on both countries, obviously, made things less safe for Americans in the short run. As I wrote a long time ago, lots of things go badly until they go well.
Unfortunately, this new talking point, though superficially more reasonable, is just as weak analytically. The hornet analogy might make some sense if we had only invaded Afghanistan. That was the "nest," so to speak, of the hornets who stung us so badly on 9/11. Had our attempts to eliminate that nest provoked a few additional stings, it would have been relatively easy to dismiss that as the unavoidable consequence of a necessary action.
But there's no getting around the fact that there just weren't any hornets' nests in Iraq. If we're going to stick within the confines of this tired analogy, invading Iraq was like taking a big stick and repeatedly whacking a tree in the general vicinity of a hornet's nest. You don't accomplish anything, but you do stir up the bees.
Goldberg writes:
Since when is any large, important, task required to show positive results at every stage? Declaring war on Japan increased the threat of war from Germany dramatically. And waging war on both countries, obviously, made things less safe for Americans in the short run.
But these historical comparisons are entirely inapposite. It is one thing to accept a short-term increase in danger in exchange for eventual victory. But where's the light at the end of the tunnel in Iraq? The ostensible purpose of our invasion of Iraq was to reduce the threat of terrorism, at least in the long term. Does anyone still think that's a likely outcome?
Moreover, when we fought Japan and Germany, we had very different goals. We were trying to defeat enemy states. We could be confident that if we toppled those regimes, the violence would cease. But when you are fighting a group of stateless jihadists, the only way to make progress is to reduce the number of jihadists. If your strategy results in a net increase in the number of jihadists, it is, almost by definition, a bad strategy.
Sooner or later, the defenders of the Iraq invasion are going to have to face this reality honestly. A losing strategy can only be spun for so long.
UPDATE: Here's the relevant passage from the newly declassified "Key Judgments" section of the NIE:
We assess that the Iraq jihad is shaping a new generation of terrorist leaders and operatives; perceived jihadist success there would inspire more fighters to continue the struggle elsewhere.In other words, our invasion and continued presence in Iraq has both inspired and provided a training ground for a new generation of jihadists, and if we leave, they will only be further embolded and inspired. Fantastic. I believe that's pretty much the definition of a no-win situation.
- The Iraq conflict has become the "cause celebre" for jihadists, breeding a deep resentment of US involvement in the Muslim world and cultivating supporters for the global jihadist movement. Should jihadists leaving Iraq perceive themselves, and be perceived, to have failed, we judge fewer fighters will be inspired to carry on the fight.



9 Comments:
Let's just pull out. Seriously. How many Baghdad civilians were killed in the past 2 months? 7 or 8 thousand? The theory that Iraq will collapse is ridiculous because Iraq has aready collapsed. What's the running tab at for this military jaunt that was sold to us on lies? This NIE report is hopefully the straw that breaks the camel's back, but all know how effective spin has become.
All we are accomplishing by staying is prolonging the misery of Americans and Iraqis while the military-industrial complex (example:Raytheon) reaps the rewards.
The Bushies don't understand terrorism, or if they do, they won't admit it.
Terrorists are motivated by perceived injustice.
The statement: "The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East" is misleading. The US has been for decades underaking a "freedom agenda"of sorts - covert operations which murdered scores or hundreds (who knows?) of so-called terrorists well before 9/11. In this sense, the US was the agressor. This agression caused a further sense of injustice in the population, already aggreived by the Israeli/Palestinian issue.
The Bushies belief that we can defeat terrorism by making terrorists feel like they just can't "win" is ridiculous. Military defeat never erases the sense of injustice. Just like the arial bombings of cities never caused the populations to "give up," but rather to become invigorated through a heightened sense of injustice.
Pull out of Iraq. Start solving the underlying injustice. Stop the oppression. There is no reason to be at war with these people, who are doing no more than any oppressed people would do.
"I believe that's pretty much the definition of a no-win situation."
Nonsense. It just proves what Bush has been saying all along. Whether it was a good idea in the first place or not, we can't afford not to see Iraq through.
Note that the NIE provides several suggestions on that. I did notice that one of those was actually considered a negative by some commenters on the NIE:
"• The increased role of Iraqis in managing the operations of al-Qa'ida in Iraq might lead veteran foreign jihadists to focus their efforts on external operations."
Far from being a negative comment, it says that foreign jihadits will be driven out of Iraq seeking easier victims as Iraq takes a larger role in it's own security. That's consistent with the report that Al Qaeda violence against Iraqi civilians and their passion for a fundamentalist theocracy backfire and limit their success.
Note that the NIE doesn't really address the situation on the ground in Iraq today; it was written before the current wave fo violence.
That remaining violence in Iraq is a hangover from the Saddam era, largely a revenge cycle from when Sunnis oppressed the Shia. More and more often both Sunni and Shia stop killing each other to attack Al Qaeda when it rears its head. No the best situation, but better than the alternative.
The religion based vendettas and revenge killings in Iraq can only go on so long and are not the real threat to the US. Al Qaeda is rapidly loosing popularity and ground. Helping the Iraqis learn to solve their own problems while crushing the foreign fighters who kill indiscriminately in an attempt to keep the killing going is the best thing we could do.
Strick,
See Iraq through? To what? Define the goal, then define the exit strategy, because otherwise, lacking clear-cut definitions of either, the best option is to get out as fast as you can -- with minimal damage to your army's personnel.
As far as your claim that jihadi's will be driven out of Iraq to seek other targets, gosh, where will these jihadi's be produced? Iraq. They'll be Iraqis, in other words. Then, having been made into terrorists, they'll leave, taking their methods with them. That sure sounds to me like "exporting terrorists." How many Iraqis would be available to feed this pool? Quite a few millions, and more are produced every day we stay in Iraq.
I don't see any evidence, anywhere, to support the claim that the Sunni and the Shia factions are united against al qaeda. It seems more likely that al qaeda gets most of its support from the sunni side. If it were true that both sides hate al qaeda more than each other, then I'd expect to see a lot less of the type of bombings that target civilians indiscriminately -- and that's not evident.
That the violence is a hangover from the Saddam era, and can't go on long is simply a display of complete ignorance of the long history of the region over the last 10 centuries. Sorry, but I think a much more probable outcome is that the violence will continue long after the US forces have left. In fact, given the culture, there's no reason they would ever stop until one side gains ascendancy and subjects the other as the Sunni faction did for centuries to the Shia.
So, to summarize, the US hasn't the power or personnel to separate the factions (they mixed over the last decades, thanks to the enforced amity under Saddam, especially in Baghdad). Thanks to an inept job of rebuilding infrastructure (hint: lots of money went bye-bye, not much really got rebuilt), even the secular Iraqis aren't thrilled with the US occupation, the Iranians and al qaeda have pretty much a free hand to toss stink bombs (and other bombs) into the works. There is no discernable US goal, nor any sensible strategy to get there, or, failing that, to get out as gracefully as possible.
Yes, I'd call this a no-win situation. We can go on looking for a way to "win" -- but I think it's more sensible to look for a "least-loss" strategy. I'm not going to hold my breath, as the Bush/Cheney/Rove administration doesn't seem to have much in the way of strategic thinking beyond winning elections in this country.
What Charles said.
Charles, that was beautiful. May I quote you?
I'm an Australian, and I think there's far too many people here who think all Americans are complicit in the activities of their administration: through inaction and apathy at best; through actively supporting them and vilifying critics in the worst instances.
I'd like to use your post as a prime example of American progressives logically and rationally dismantling the right-wing rhetoric. Now, if only you had an opposition party who'd listen...
quietstorm,
Quote me if you like. I *am* an American. Progressive, well, that's a label that may apply.
why do so many intelligent people still refuse to believe that all of this is planned, choreographed? what about it isn't exactly as they want it all down the line?
they are making money, they are changing the government to a totalitarian one, and you think that this wasn't the goal all along? the bush's are friends of the saudi familias, they want the same kind of government they have, monarchy. they are doing so now. do I have to go on, or do some begin to see that there is nothing accidental about any of this, no detail overlooked? why else would only incompetents be in charge at every post?
do we not recall the reagan attempted assassination attempt and what it would have meant? remember who was in the vp's back pocket? "saddam hussein has always never been a friend of oceania" did hinkley really meet the other even less convincing bush prior?
I am becoming embarrassed by the progressive side of the street not understanding that we must think like they do, if only to understand them. you can't believe they would do this, but they do. listen to the members of congress line up to service the president by praising him and praying to him. he and his machine have destroyed the chances of any republican from being re elected in some republican strongholds, and they are still backing him knowing they are about to see forced retirement, or? Planned strategy so they can't back down when he tells us he is the government and the constitution has been discontinued for now, sorry for the inconvenience
just one piece of contradiction of fact would be most welcome, for I have not seen any. there are numerous democrats that have backed them all the way, standing down when the going got tough, or am I wrong? have we seen one instance of filibuster? have we seen the justice department do anything except a show trial for scooter, leaving all the real players out of it?
they are making huge amounts of money, and they will not stop. please note that gas prices haven't gone down in states where they don't care. please note that today, years too late, a couple of real spineless demos stood up and said we need paper ballots? do you think that is going to happen when they have the voting machines they need fixed, all ready in the bag? it has been that way now for a while, lest we forget
anything, anything that can disprove this theory would be most welcome. think like someone who has no conscience, no soul for those of you into god, no ties, nothing outweighs their greed.
oldtree
"In other words, our invasion and continued presence in Iraq has both inspired and provided a training ground for a new generation of jihadists, and if we leave, they will only be further embolded and inspired. Fantastic. I believe that's pretty much the definition of a no-win situation."
Uh, no, the answer is to win in Iraq, not to give up.
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