The Spying Controversy: Engaging Bush's Apologists
Over the last few days, I've been attempting to engage Jeff Goldstein of Protein Wisdom in a debate over the legality of Bush's NSA spying program. Goldstein is one of Bush's staunchest defenders on this issue. To his credit, Goldstein hasn't shied away from the debate.
It all began when I responded, with clear exasperation, to this post on the wiretapping issue. That led to this rebuttal by Jeff, followed by my reply. Jeff then devoted a new post to this exchange, and eventually another. If you're interested in this debate, I'd encourage you read all three of these posts, particularly the comment sections. A number of other very capable writers joined the fray, and the exchange has been lively, informative, and at times quite funny. At the very least you'll come away with a good sense of what arguments each side is putting forward (and you should get a sense of their relative merit).
I want to take a second here, though, to address an assertion that Jeff and a number of other Bush defenders have made repeatedly. In his latest post on this topic, Jeff writes:
Another common theme among Bush's defenders (and Jeff is no exception) is a willingness to declare that the spy program is good policy while at the same time claiming that we don't yet know enough about the program to assess its legality. This is an astoundingly incoherent position. As a basic matter, policy analysis is much more fact-intensive than legal analysis. To know whether something is good policy or not you generally need to know ALL the facts. That's just the nature of policy analysis. One small detail can turn an otherwise good idea into a spectacularly bad one. The same is not at all true about legal analysis. The law is the law; it's all a matter of public record. Determing whether a program runs afoul of the law only requires knowing a few legally significant facts.
And we do know some facts about this program. For instance, Alberto Gonzales has stated clearly that “the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act provides--requires a court order before engaging in this kind of surveillance that I’ve just discussed and the President announced on Saturday.” And the president himself has stated that the NSA is intercepting calls to which U.S. citizens are parties. From a legal standpoint, those are the only facts we need to know. FISA unquestionably prohibits warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens.
You can argue, of course, that FISA is unconstitutional, or that the AUMF superseded FISA, or that the AUMF is an "other statute" under FISA, but these are all legal arguments. They don’t depend on any facts we don’t already know. So unless Gonzales and Bush are lying, we have all the information necessary to assess the legality of the program.
But while the legal debate is ripe for discussion, the policy debate is most certainly not. We don’t know how the program works, what technology or processes it employs, what safeguards or oversight (if any) are in place, or if there has been any abuse. All of these questions are highly relevant to any policy analysis of the program. Yet despite all this, Jeff and others have no problem declaring their support for the program and, at the same time, admonishing the rest of us for engaging in premature legal speculation. Incredible.
On an encouraging note, at least some people are starting to speak up. Jeffrey H. Smith, former CIA General Counsel, has written a 14 page memo to Congress in which he argues quite convincingly that the President's NSA spying program is illegal (a link can be found at the Brad Blog). Harvard constitutional law professor Larry Tribe has also written a letter to Congress arguing that the program is illegal. Both offer thorough, well-reasoned, and incredibly persuasive arguments. I encourage you to read them.
It all began when I responded, with clear exasperation, to this post on the wiretapping issue. That led to this rebuttal by Jeff, followed by my reply. Jeff then devoted a new post to this exchange, and eventually another. If you're interested in this debate, I'd encourage you read all three of these posts, particularly the comment sections. A number of other very capable writers joined the fray, and the exchange has been lively, informative, and at times quite funny. At the very least you'll come away with a good sense of what arguments each side is putting forward (and you should get a sense of their relative merit).
I want to take a second here, though, to address an assertion that Jeff and a number of other Bush defenders have made repeatedly. In his latest post on this topic, Jeff writes:
[T]he administration, under AUMF, is treatingThis argument is so incredibly ass-backwards that its staggering. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, as you might guess from its name, is a statute that regulates the type of surveillance used for foreign intelligence gathering purposes. Contrary to Jeff's contention, it has nothing whatsoever to do with law enforcement surveillance. Traditional law enforcement surveillance (of the mob, drug dealers, etc.) is governed by a totally different statute, Title III of the Omnibus Crime Act of 1968 (the "Wiretap Act"). Securing a warrant under FISA is considerably easier than under Title III; it doesn't require a showing of probable cause that a crime has been or is about to be committed. The only reason this less rigorous standard is constitutionally acceptable is because, under FISA, to secure a warrant you must first assure the court that a "significant purpose of the surveillance is to obtain foreign intelligence information” (prior to the passage of the Patriot Act, officials had to assure the court that this was the “primary purpose" of the surveillance). This requirement was included to ensure that FISA is used ONLY for foreign intelligence gathering and NEVER for mere law enforcement purposes. In fact, that is FISA’s entire reason for being. Otherwise it would be unnecessary, redundant, and it would violate the 4th amendment. So to say that Bush's defenders are confused on this point would be a massive understatement.
the al Qaeda threat as a war; civil libertarian
absolutists and the Dem leadership are
treating it as a law enforcement issue
domestically, complete with attendant
vigorous defenses of fourth amendment
protections for would-be terrorists, including
demands for FISA warrants (which were
intended as a law enforcement tool, and are
in fact, if I’m correct, still be used as such), and
spirited attacks on our foreign intel gathering
capabilities.
Another common theme among Bush's defenders (and Jeff is no exception) is a willingness to declare that the spy program is good policy while at the same time claiming that we don't yet know enough about the program to assess its legality. This is an astoundingly incoherent position. As a basic matter, policy analysis is much more fact-intensive than legal analysis. To know whether something is good policy or not you generally need to know ALL the facts. That's just the nature of policy analysis. One small detail can turn an otherwise good idea into a spectacularly bad one. The same is not at all true about legal analysis. The law is the law; it's all a matter of public record. Determing whether a program runs afoul of the law only requires knowing a few legally significant facts.
And we do know some facts about this program. For instance, Alberto Gonzales has stated clearly that “the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act provides--requires a court order before engaging in this kind of surveillance that I’ve just discussed and the President announced on Saturday.” And the president himself has stated that the NSA is intercepting calls to which U.S. citizens are parties. From a legal standpoint, those are the only facts we need to know. FISA unquestionably prohibits warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens.
You can argue, of course, that FISA is unconstitutional, or that the AUMF superseded FISA, or that the AUMF is an "other statute" under FISA, but these are all legal arguments. They don’t depend on any facts we don’t already know. So unless Gonzales and Bush are lying, we have all the information necessary to assess the legality of the program.
But while the legal debate is ripe for discussion, the policy debate is most certainly not. We don’t know how the program works, what technology or processes it employs, what safeguards or oversight (if any) are in place, or if there has been any abuse. All of these questions are highly relevant to any policy analysis of the program. Yet despite all this, Jeff and others have no problem declaring their support for the program and, at the same time, admonishing the rest of us for engaging in premature legal speculation. Incredible.
On an encouraging note, at least some people are starting to speak up. Jeffrey H. Smith, former CIA General Counsel, has written a 14 page memo to Congress in which he argues quite convincingly that the President's NSA spying program is illegal (a link can be found at the Brad Blog). Harvard constitutional law professor Larry Tribe has also written a letter to Congress arguing that the program is illegal. Both offer thorough, well-reasoned, and incredibly persuasive arguments. I encourage you to read them.



6 Comments:
I admire your fortitude, but at this point, it's pretty clear that Jeff either doesn't get it or he purposefully doesn't get it. I'm betting on the later.
Still, keep up the good fight.
Might I suggest a third option? Jeff doesn't want to get it. This whole wiretapping thing, and even the larger view of the WOT as a whole has often brought my thoughts to Paul Krugman's introduction in his book, when he references Kissinger's "A World Restored". I understand that since I referenced Krugman, an avowed Democrat and liberal, this automatically renders all of my arguments null and void, and I'll wait for you all to click elsewhere.
Still with me? Kissinger describes what would happen when a stable system is confronted by a "revolutionary power" that rejects the legitimacy of the system itself. I'm certainly not comparing the current Administration with Napoleon (Kissinger's case study). But in light of the wiretapping, torture, and detaining of ECs indefinitely (among other things), it's seems eerily similar. I would argue that the Administration tries to have the best interests of the citizens at heart. But it does not accept the current judicial and legislative system we live in as legitimate.
Well, I personally think this is largely a distinction without a difference. Intentional self deception is not any different than intentional ignorance. They are equivalent from a moral and ethical perspective.
Your pointer to Kissinger's book is welcomed. I hadn't read that, sad to say. In any event, I disagree somewhat. I don't disagree with the assertion that they *believe* they have the best interests of the citizens at heart. But to me, this is really a meaningless statement. I would wager that pretty much everyone - of all political stripes - believes they are acting in the best interests of the citizens.
I'm reminded of a talk that Daniel Elsberg gave in which he talked about conflict of interest.
The problem of conflict of interest with people's background, from the oil industry, for example, like Bush and Cheney, is not that they tell themselves, I'm acting for my corporate sponsors and from personal interests against the interests of the United States. Conflict of interest consists of the fact they can't see any difference between the interests of the U.S. and what they learned, as oil executives, was in the interest of the U.S., and of those corporations. That's why the Constitution so wisely said, don't let one man, elected man - or in this case almost elected man - decide the issue of war and peace. That should be the job of a more broadly representative body that will make it hard and reluctant to get into war. As Tom Payne said, "It is the pride of kings that throws mankind into confusion."
To my thinking this explains the situation nicely and explains all cognitive dissonances.
Don't bother with these debates - it's hard to tell if the person you'r debating, on this singular issue, is sincere. It's so doubtful that many of them would uphold the general principles of their argument, if Clinton were in office.
If you listed to Bush supporters, en masse, you can tell they make exceptions for him. It's more of a personality cult, on behalf of a national Fraternity leader, than it is a theory of politics.
Stop by our blog and read our recent 3 posts and you'll see what we mean.
Larry Tribe's letter is hard to take seriously, when it ends like this:
"the presidential program of surveillance at issue here is . . . as grave an abuse of executive authority as I can recall ever having studied."
If Larry Tribe hasn't studied enough to have heard of Lincoln's suspension of the right of habeas corpus, how seriously can his scholarship be taken? On the other hand, if he has heard of it (as I'm sure he has), how reliable can his analysis be if he wilfully engages in such rhetorical hyperbole?
To anonymous:
The U.S. Constitution, Article I, Section 9, paragraph 2, specifically says, "The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it." The delegates to the Constitutional Convention in 1778 voted unanimously on the first clause. Later, Gouverneur Morris introduced a qualifying second exception clause adapted from the Massachusetts state constitution, and the provision were passed by a vote of 7 states to 3 states.
So, it is clear that Pres. Lincoln did not violate anybody's Constitutional right by suspending habeus corpus. But the question went further to examine whether or not the conditions in 1861 constituted war, riot and insurrection? Let's look at the facts again. As secession began, many Federal forts fell into the hands of the Confederates; military officers of the southern extraction resigned in drove from the old Army and went South; Gen. David Twiggs of Georgia surrendered his Federal Military Department to the Texans without a fight; Secretary of War Floyd of the Buchannan Administration amassed huge amount of military equipment in the hands of the military authorities with Southern sympathy; and crisis at the two forts, Pickens in Florida and Sumter in S. Carolina of which, nobody knew which one would blow up first at that time. All these facts were pointing to riots, insurrection and act of war. Certainly the conditions satisfied the exception clause to suspend habeus corpus.
So what I'm telling you is this: Larry Tribe is right. You are wrong. Get it?
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